Crack filling question

ok i have a fine crack that wouldnt close up last night, got more than one but this is what i am referring to so i ask the forum as to how to fill this fine void to make it less noticeable,, how would you folks do it,, charlie i hope your still here because i would like to hear your thoughts on this..

IMHO, filling it is only going to make it more noticeable, unless you're going to paint this project. I would take it apart, plane the edges completely flat, and glue it again.

bruce, this was flat i believe, checked it before the glue up, used a rabbet plane and jointer for edges, i think its hydraulics from glue giving me fits.. this is a large rabbet joint. 58" long, looking to have two more to do and am looking at chamfer the inside corner to relieve the hydraulics some. also what glue would you use to help with the next batch, this was done with titebond 1 and i have tried out some tite bond three last night to see if it was any different on some scrap, it appears to dry brown like plasitic resin glue???

How did you clamp it Larry? Did you use a caul to help apply pressure evenly along the joint? I'll sometimes rub some glue in the joint and immediately sand the joint to embed the fine dust in it.

When you say jointer you mean the floor model one right cause I would never touch that joint with a hand tool if I had a power tool to do it.

As for the rabbet I would ruff cut that on the table saw and either clean it up on a shaper or the router table.

That lock miter bit is starting to look pretty good now.

Well I would be using tight bond 2 Take your glue and fill the crack with it. Force it in with your finger than before it dries sand it with an RO sander. The spinning of the sander forces the saw dust into the glue/crack. Make sure you sand off all the glue residue from the surface.

Yha what Alan said.

I agree on the chamfer as a pressure relief. Since you used rabbet or shoulder planes to assure a good fit prior to glue up, it is most assuredly the glues volume causing your problem. There is nothing more disappointing than a starved joint but, with that much long grain surface contact, I am OK spreading a tissue paper thin film of glue the length of the joint. I then position the parts and sue many, many small clamps to "snug" thing into position. I then start at one end and walk the tightening to full pressure along as I go, adjusting/assuring a proper fit as I go.

Alan Bienlein said:

How did you clamp it Larry? Did you use a caul to help apply pressure evenly along the joint? I'll sometimes rub some glue in the joint and immediately sand the joint to embed the fine dust in it.

When you say jointer you mean the floor model one right cause I would never touch that joint with a hand tool if I had a power tool to do it.

As for the rabbet I would ruff cut that on the table saw and either clean it up on a shaper or the router table.

That lock miter bit is starting to look pretty good now.

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alan,, your not funny and yes it is and i will be getting a large 45 degree chamfer bit.. the one i have is for a small 3/4 cut height not enough.. and i have used the saw dust trick before but like bruce said some of this glue clear to the top,, so i will do some magic if can with the coloring of it later.. character is good right maybe the customer is blind they already said it was fine as is but that isnt what i will leave it as.

Im not a pro, never represented myself as anything but an amateur, my biggest quandary in woodworking is just where larry is at now with his seam.
Do I, or dont I? touch it up, leave it alone, maybe make it more noticable?
cant figure out exactly where the line is to attempt a correction.

allen levine said:

Im not a pro, never represented myself as anything but an amateur, my biggest quandary in woodworking is just where larry is at now with his seam.
Do I, or dont I? touch it up, leave it alone, maybe make it more noticable?
cant figure out exactly where the line is to attempt a correction.

Click to expand...

All I can say on that Allen is I go thru the same thought process. If it's not really going to show then I don't worry about something like that. Then when you do decide to fix it you really need to keep notes on what you did so that if something goes wrong or comes out right you know what you did.

not to get off thread topic here, I try to remember not to make another mistake in the next project so no corrections are needed. (doesnt work well for me though)

Chuck Thoits said:

Well I would be using tight bond 2 Take your glue and fill the crack with it. Force it in with your finger than before it dries sand it with an RO sander. The spinning of the sander forces the saw dust into the glue/crack. Make sure you sand off all the glue residue from the surface.

Click to expand...

Personally I'd prefer white glue (elmers) instead of titebond in this case, it dries clearer whereas the titebond tends to darken on me. Could just be technique, as sometimes it seems to and sometimes it don't (I think "over handling" it or getting other contaminants in is part of my problem, but the titebond still seems to have a bit more color).

For a knot fill or void I'd want to go darker but in this cast not so much.

Its a pretty small crack so I'd give it reasonable odds of not looking tooo noticeable, but unfortunately you won't know 100% for sure until you finish it (could try making a sample with an oops and filling it in then taking it to final finish with whatever finish process you're using), the darker the finish the less likely it is to stand out..

Another option might be to try to grain match a small sliver and glue it in. If you decide the glue fill looks to bad, I'd probably try a patch before re-ripping/redoing and then put some mineral spirits or some like that to wet it so you can see how it looks for a first pass (even wipe with a damp rag).

With patches/fills its also important to stand back at normal viewing distance before you decide to bunch it. Lots of things look bad when viewed under a microscope..

yur right on that ryan ,, but i even look bad from a distance we are gonna gamble on this and see how it looks maybe the cabinet will be darker than i thought

I almost didn't answer since you have so many suggestions already. But since you asked, this is what I would do...

You need to find something to hold very find sanding dust in the crack. If I am going to be finishing it with Target Coatings, I might use the EM1000 sanding sealer, or EM6000 lacquer. I wet my finger in the finish, dip it in sawdust, and rub it in the crack - that seems to get more in, deeper than a ROS, but sometimes I use the sander trick - take off the dust vacuum since you don't want the sanding clean, you want it with accumulated sawdust rubbed into the crack. (An old, almost dead, piece of sandpaper works better than a new one). You don't have to worry about finish on the surface since that is what you will be adding in the next step.

If for whatever reason I don't want to use the finish to hold the sawdust in, I use Titebond 1. It sands off the surface easily, and if I get too much, I can scrub the excess off with warm water. But I like the suggestion for White glue - either school glue (washes out of clothes more easily, doesn't hold as strong) or regular white glue (I know people who use it for woodworking, even making guitars and violins, since it is reversible like hide glue). But for this use, either white glue should be fine. I hate Titebond 2 since it is extremely hard to remove from outside the joint, well enough to not impact your finish. And Titebond 3 is even worse.

There is a filler on the market called Timber Mate. It is an Australian product and excellent. Not very well promoted or marketed but available. It really takes a stain unlike my experience with others that only claim to take stains. It also comes in a variety of shades. Clean up is with water. I'll betcha, with some testing you can color the TM and that crack would vanish. As for prevention on future projects, I'll leave that advice up to the experts here.

I would like to ask why not what the pen guys use like CA glue. Its thin and from what i experienced flows everywhere very easily. Or wax touch up pen after. Its not like you need strength here.

BTW Popular woodworking has an excellent article this month inside the rear cover. The guy writing it specifically makes a joke of the fact that woodworker find it impossible not to highlight these errors to people who look at their work and say wow that looks great, they then proceed to point out the mistake making it such that the person sees that error everytime they look at the piece. Many would not even notice this if not pointed out.

Heck if i took this kind of thing into account on stuff we have purchased over the years I would have no furniture in my house at all.

well the last two went better with some glue space built in, and the parts went together much easier with some added cauls and different clamp process. the key i think was to make room for the glue and not have to much glue. after some scraping and sanding they dont show bad, after a alcohol test. so with some toning they will be a non issue.

Next time, try liquid hide glue. It takes stains and finishes. Either mix in some very fine sanding dust or smoosh some into the crack and then sand over the top. Either way, it'll work, relatively well.

Just for reference, I never take a strip off the saw and glue that to anything. I always take a block plane and remove any saw marks and make that glue side as smooth as possible to minimize any gap. Same for the substrate, even if it is plywood.

bruce i almost did just that, the hide glue is sure sticky.. and it drys slower.. i also though of using that for the joint as well.. but went back to tite bond 1 the relive saved me alot of head ache i think.. just like a tenon that doesnt have a chamfers for glue room..

Larry have you ever used Behlen's burn in sticks? What I do when this problem rears its ugly head and its too late to fix it or would be too time consuming to do it over is use these sticks. They are made for furniture repair and come in various colors to match different stains etc. I will mix up the colors to get as close to what the final finish is going to look like (from a finished sample) melt the product into the crack and sand flush. Then when the stain/finish goes on the imperfection disappears. Ive used this successfully on many projects including filling small knot holes. its a very fast system and you dont have to wait for anything to dry. Also it wont discolor the surrounding wood or inhibit stain penetration. When using it on bare wood dont use the lube just melt it on directly and sand it off starting with 100 grit.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TFR/item/BH-BIKIT/Behlen__Burn-In_Repair_Kit