Novice Vanity Build

I agree with Chuck, 3 or 4 are plenty. A good rule of thumb for drawer depths is 3 inches shorter than the overall depth of the cabinet. ie a 21" deep cabinet would get 18" deep drawers.
If you work with waterbornes for the most part all you need to do is flush the gun with warm soapy water. when you are going to store the gun for any period of time after a project then break it down and give it a thorough cleaning. guns and pots with stainless steel linings are best for waterbornes as they are highly corrosive. Follow the rinse with straight denatured alcohol.

vertical surfaces just go with very light coats and you can avoid sags. when spraying the inside of a cabinet you have to contort yourself a bit by standing to the side and keeping the gun at a right angle to the surface being sprayed or the mist will come back and hit you in the face. (dont ask me how I know this) and wear a respirator with a mask (the tee shirt over the nose and eye glasses dont work. again, dont ask me how I know this) Another method is to machine up your plywood parts, mask any surfaces that are to be glued and spray the insides before assembly while you can still lay them flat.
Prefinished plywood is a bit more expensive but a real time saver and a very durable finish. if you are building several cabinets its well worth it in the time savings

Side mount slides work much better (if shimming is needed) to allow an extra 1/32" per side 1/2" gap larger than the drawer width. IOW, if the recommended gap per side is 1/2", allow an inch and a sixteenth smaller drawer box than the opening. If you like counting on a tape measure, it's 17/16". As for installing screws, I use a minimum of 3 per drawer and cabinet member. One for front and back and one in the middle. The middle one stops deflection as the drawer gets pulled out. There are oval slotted holes in both the drawer and cabinet member. Most slides there is a front-to-back adjustment in the cabinet member. The drawer member usually has both...an up-and-down, and front-to-back adjustment holes.

When spraying the interiors of cabinets, I leave the backs of the cabinets out, and finish them separately. With drawers, the bottoms are left out, and finished separately. I use primarily a waterbase polyurethane. A very good over the counter one is Parks Pro Finisher, available at HD. It's a very durable finish, suitable for flooring, and works great for furniture and cabinetry. If you check what is recommended for cleanup, a waterbase polyurethane uses water. A lacquer based product will use lacquer thinner. If you check the MSDS and TDS for WB polyurethanes, they are all very similar, including some that are called waterbased lacquer. If you like the burn in, you can add a tbsp (½ oz) of lacquer thinner per qt cup of waterbase polyurethane for adhesion. You have to experiment with the amount added with different brands.

When spraying WB poly, it's best to do thin applications. When spraying flat, try not to puddle or pool the media.



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Cynthia White said:

...I guess I'm going to have to try spraying. I always thought that spraying would involve a lot of complicated clean up with the sprayer etc. ...

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The sooner you learn to spray, the sooner you will stop kicking yourself for procrastinating. If you have a compressor, I recommend a gun in the $100 range. The $25 guns look identical, but in my experience don't atomize as well as the better guns. (And the $350 guns are even better). If your compressor is small (like a contractor compressor) it will work, but you will have to pause to allow the compressor to catch up - you will use the air from the tank faster than it can be replaced by the compressor. I know a furniture restoration pro who gets along fine with a small compressor. See www.solowoodworker.com/wood/spraying.html especially the last paragraph on practicing before you start with finish.

Clean up time with Target coatings, in a sink with running water, is about 90 seconds with a "cup on the bottom" gun, and less than a minute with a gravity gun. Nothing like cleaning up latex paint.

Cynthia White said:

.. I can imagine spraying a flat surface, but I have a hard time picturing spraying the inside of a cabinet...?

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On bookcases and such items with a thin (non-structural) back, I leave the back off for finishing. Finish the back separately, then attach. But you can spray the inside of a box. Turn the paint and air flow down and spray the sides of each corner - don't try to spray directly in the corner - the air will carry the finish out, and almost nothing will be in the corner. Once the corners are done, you have flat surfaces. You will learn tricks to keep the hose from hitting the surface you have already sprayed.

Cynthia White said:

... By the way, is there any limit to the number of coats of lacquer you can put on a project? ....

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The usual question is how many coats are required. Typically a couple on non-wear surfaces such as the back of the cabinet, and 3-4 on wear surfaces. BUT the beauty of lacquer is the burn-in - each coat you add just becomes part of the previous finish. So if you are unsure of yourself (a beginner) you can have almost as many light coats as you want, until you build up a sufficient finish. Beware... many vendors have what they call a water-based lacquer, but Target Coatings is the only one I have found that has full burn-in. If the instructions call for sanding between coats for adhesion (as opposed to sanding to get rid of mistakes), then the finish does not have burn in, and you need to apply perfect coats.

Cynthia White said:

...How many screws should I put on each cabinet slide? And for the slide that you attach to the drawer, does it have to be on the bottom of the drawer side, or can it be anywhere on the drawer side? ...

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I usually put about 4 screws in a full length drawer slide, never fewer than 3 in a shorter slide. There are some "Euro" slides and some fancy hidden slides that have to go on the bottom of the drawer, but the good quality full extension slides, such as Accuride 3832 and imitators, can go on the bottom or center of the drawer, as you wish.

Thank you for so much good information, all of which I'll put to good use.

Question: The drawer slide instructions show the (cabinet) slides mounted flush with the front of the cabinet, and for the 14" slides, they say the max drawer length is about 13 1/2". Is there a compelling reason why the slides have to be mounted flush with the front? Will the earth stop turning if I mounted them a couple of inches back from the front edge? And why is the max drawer length less the the length of the slide? Why can't I make the drawer longer ever if the back the drawer is not accessible?

You folks are the best.

Many/most slides have a slight lock when the drawer is fully closed, therefore you want to be able to fully close the slide. The greatest stress on the drawer/slide is when the drawer is fully open. Therefore the best position for the slide is as far forward as possible. Thus the cabinet-side piece is normally mounted where the drawer side piece will be when fully closed.

For the fancy hidden drawer slides, the length of the drawer is critical, since part of the slide mounts on the back of the drawer, but for ordinary side mount full extension slides, I routinely make the drawers shorter or longer than the slides.

Thanks Charlie! that answered the question.

Cynthia White said:

Thank you for so much good information, all of which I'll put to good use.

Question: The drawer slide instructions show the (cabinet) slides mounted flush with the front of the cabinet, and for the 14" slides, they say the max drawer length is about 13 1/2". Is there a compelling reason why the slides have to be mounted flush with the front? Will the earth stop turning if I mounted them a couple of inches back from the front edge? And why is the max drawer length less the the length of the slide? Why can't I make the drawer longer ever if the back the drawer is not accessible?

You folks are the best.

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If you measure the length of the slides for most full extension side mounts, you'll see they are about ½" shorter than the next even number. It's not a big deal whether you make the drawer shorter or longer than the length of the slides. For a drawer box that will receive a drawer front, as in an overlay drawer front, I set the cabinet member slide about 1/16" to 1/8" back from the the front edge of the cabinet. That way, the drawer is free to close with minimal restriction or resistance. What would be critical as to where you mount the cabinet member is if the drawer is an inset one, whereas the stopping of it would be paramount to its finishing flush with the front of the cabinet. In either case, the drawer member slide gets installed flush with the front of the box. With an added front, it just butts up against it.



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Thanks Charlie and Mike. Yes, they will be overlay drawers, and I think my slides are mounted in the wrong places..... I better go do some unscrewing and re-measuring.

Man I wish I'd had all you guys around when I was learning... actually wait I'm still learning... Thanks Cindy for asking questions and thanks everyone else for doing such a bang up job of giving out such detailed explanations, others are playing along.

Cynthia if need be make a story pole for your drawers before you attach hardware. That way you know all your measurements will work out. Use a scrap piece of plywood and draw it all on there before moving forward. It takes all the guess work out of your final project.
Also, mount your slides and drawer boxes first then install the fronts.

Rich Soby said:

Cynthia if need be make a story pole for your drawers before you attach hardware. That way you know all your measurements will work out. Use a scrap piece of plywood and draw it all on there before moving forward. It takes all the guess work out of your final project.
Also, mount your slides and drawer boxes first then install the fronts.

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come on now rich let her mount the frnts first

Rich Soby said:

Cynthia if need be make a story pole for your drawers before you attach hardware. That way you know all your measurements will work out. Use a scrap piece of plywood and draw it all on there before moving forward. It takes all the guess work out of your final project.
Also, mount your slides and drawer boxes first then install the fronts.

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I would install the face frames before installing drawers and their hardware. If the cabinetry is face framed, it's likely that there will be a build out necessary from the cabinet side to flush out with the edge of the face frame. If it's a single drawer or two, a front to back add on strip will likely do it. For a bank of drawers, it's easiest to add vertical strips to align where mounting screws will be.



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Rich Soby said:

Cynthia if need be make a story pole for your drawers before you attach hardware. That way you know all your measurements will work out.

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Yes, you're right. I forgot about that. In the later photo, you'll see I made a template for the slides with a piece of plywood, but the slides are all wrong anyway

Ryan Mooney said:

Man I wish I'd had all you guys around when I was learning... actually wait I'm still learning... Thanks Cindy for asking questions and thanks everyone else for doing such a bang up job of giving out such detailed explanations, others are playing along.

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Glad you're following along, Ryan. Yeah, I really missed you all, and that's why I came back. I gotta ask questions to learn, for my benefit, and for the benefit of others who are reluctant to ask questions. Ask Larry M. He loves my questions

mike marvel said:

What would be critical as to where you mount the cabinet member is if the drawer is an inset one, whereas the stopping of it would be paramount to its finishing flush with the front of the cabinet. In either case, the drawer member slide gets installed flush with the front of the box. With an added front, it just butts up against it.

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This is important because eventually I'd like to make inset drawers. Probably not capable of that yet. Some might argue I'm not capable of *this* project.

larry merlau said:

come on now rich let her mount the frnts first

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Be careful what you wish for, my friend.

mike marvel said:

I would install the face frames before installing drawers and their hardware. If the cabinetry is face framed, it's likely that there will be a build out necessary from the cabinet side to flush out with the edge of the face frame. If it's a single drawer or two, a front to back add on strip will likely do it. For a bank of drawers, it's easiest to add vertical strips to align where mounting screws will be.

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Ha! This is where my project gets tricky, and I may be in trouble. I thought I *did* make a frame. Maybe this is not what you'd call a frame. See the edges I finished? I figured that's a very narrow frame.



I wanted to avoid this big fat ugly frame on my old kitchen cabinets, where you see tons of frame on the outside with the doors closed, and you also have big frames that stick out into the opening everywhere.

Rich Soby said:

Cynthia if need be make a story pole for your drawers before you attach hardware. That way you know all your measurements will work out. Use a scrap piece of plywood and draw it all on there before moving forward. It takes all the guess work out of your final project.
Also, mount your slides and drawer boxes first then install the fronts.

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Yes, Rich, I see what you mean, and that's how I was planning to do the drawers, drawers first, then fronts. I want to make sure the drawers fit properly before making the fronts.

I better go make a story pole and a new template for slides. Thanks for everything folks. You're the best.

It looks like from the picture below, that you have a ¾" thick face frame added to the vertical cabinet member...am I right? If that's the case make and install the face frame first.

EDIT: In your first picture, I can't see clearly enough exactly what you did there. There are only two choices for the front edge of a cabinet. It's frameless if the front edge of the cabinet wall will be the front, and in that case it is usually just banded with a veneer type product, or solid wood applied in the same width as the cabinet end. The other is a face frame, which is solid wood and is wider than the cabinet end.
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mike marvel said:

EDIT: In your first picture, I can't see clearly enough exactly what you did there. There are only two choices for the front edge of a cabinet. It's frameless if the front edge of the cabinet wall will be the front, and in that case it is usually just banded with a veneer type product, or solid wood applied in the same width as the cabinet end. The other is a face frame, which is solid wood and is wider than the cabinet end.

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Here's a close-up. I finished the plywood edge with solid wood. Are you saying I need a face frame over this? Or can I just use this for my drawers and doors to close on? (which is what I was hoping)

Cynthia White said:

Here's a close-up. I finished the plywood edge with solid wood. Are you saying I need a face frame over this? Or can I just use this for my drawers and doors to close on? (which is what I was hoping)

View attachment 76171

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Yes you can. It is a face frame, but it looks like the opening (inside) edge is flush with the cabinet end. That edge doesn't protrude into the cabinet opening. So, you can treat it like a frameless cabinet, by having drawer fronts and doors overlaying it. Or, it could be used for an inset application. If the other side is the same, you have no problems.



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mike marvel said:

Yes you can. It is a face frame, but it looks like the opening (inside) edge is flush with the cabinet end. That edge doesn't protrude into the cabinet opening. So, you can treat it like a frameless cabinet, by having drawer fronts and doors overlaying it. Or, it could be used for an inset application. If the other side is the same, you have no problems.

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Great! yes, it's the same everywhere. Okay, I'll call it "frameless". and the drawers and doors will overlay this. Thanks! So for a cabinet with a frame, the frame would cover the raw edges of the plywood?

Cynthia White said:

Thanks! So for a cabinet with a frame, the frame would cover the raw edges of the plywood?

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Yes Ma'am.



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lol Larry.......
What I meant was don't mount the drawer fronts to the drawers before setting them in the cabinet. hehehe
Also, once the story pole layout is complete its easier to cut stand offs and work from the top down installing the slides.

cynthia. mike is correct on the application you have is a face frame but your in a place no where youcan got inset real easy if you want or overlay but you wont have much leeway to go over lay.. a normal face frame is around 1.5" to 2" wide which allows you to use a overlay type hinge on the doors, that will give you more room for error. and drawer frnts also have more room for error.