When does one really need a Dust Collector?

Al Launier

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Bedford, NH
As you know, my woodworking experience & scope of work is limited compared to you guys, but whenever I run into what appears to be a "good deal" I find it hard to resist. I've been know to be a compulsive buyer at times, well not really, just like a good deal. ;) So, I have the Dust Deputy cyclone vacuum set up on a mobile platform that services the woodworking tools individually with 4" / 2 1/2" reducer fittings to attach to the vacuum's 2 1/2" vacuum line. The vacuum rolls easilly from tool to tool, yet it is a slight nuisance to have to hookup/unhook each time I use a tool. However, I was thinking it might be nice to have more capable DC set up to serve the primary dust making tools: TS, Jointer, Router.

Just wondering if some of you have gone through this stage & what you ended up doing. Have you found a Dust Deputy lacking compared to a 4" Dust Collection At volume of woodworking do you feel it's appropriate to have a DC system? system?

Now, this has been brought on by another "Good Deal" (???). http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/3815034813.html

I realize that getting a DC is just the beginning as routing of dustwork will be required & I'm hesitant about starting something that will be a white elephant. At what point did you guys decide that you really needed a real DC system?
 
The more I read about health impacts of fine wood dust, coupled with a serious respiratory hygiene program at work (when I had a day job) convinced me that a really capable DC should be among the first tools purchased instead of an afterthought. But there are as many opinions on DC as there are woodworkers. They range from those who see it as a complete waste of money, to those who want to capture and contain every spec of dust possible. So you have to figure out where you think you are on that scale and go from there....I find myself closer to the "capture and contain every spec" end of the stick.
 
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I think the DC will do a lot better on the real sawdust producers, like the jointer, planner and table saw. I have a small shop and I attach my tools to the dust collector via Rockler's flex hose. It extends up around 20+ feet which is about the length of my shop. Some day I would love to have a shop with piped DC to stationary machines, but I don't think I ever will have that luxury.
 
I basically have the same set up as paul.

I use the collector on all my main tools with rocklers 20 foot flexible hose.

I used to have tons of plastic hoses hanging all over the garage, but because of the fact I need to constantly move machines to work on different levels of projects, I found the expandable hose the easiest to use. I also purchased the easy off easy on attachments rocklers sells.
don't recall the name, they attach to each machine, so I just push the hose on and pull it off, no clamps.

the only tool I have hooked up permanently, is the TS, because I hate to bend constantly, and the mitre saw I stuck a small shop vac under the back of the mitre stand table that switches on when I turn on the mitre.

I use the mitre and TS the most, and I hate spray back into my face, so I found it important to keep the spray back dust under control.

complete dust control is best, but you need a pretty large unit with extensive piping.
 
I think many of us have gone through these steps. I started with the shop-vac and bought various attachments and adapters to fit it to different things (that's spend #1). I then got a 1HP bagger on sale with the usual inadequate filtering and bought various attachments and adapters to fit it to different things (that's spend #2). I work in an enclosed space and so modified the bagger to try to make it do the job; better filtering, dedicated circuit, etc. (that's spend #3).

I ended up doing permanent damage to my sinuses (that's spend # "the rest of my life") and finally bought a cyclone with a micron filter and ran 6" ducting, dropped to 4" at the blast gate at the machine and can now work again. I do have to wear a respirator even when hand sanding but, that is a result of not doing enough about dust collection, soon enough as I was well advised by many on this and other forums. This is not something I get to un-do or make up for, I'm stuck with it.

Whatever path you choose, until you can work without creating a dust environment that you would consider unsafe for a newborn, wear a respirator. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer and not everyone who works in a dusty atmosphere gets respiratory problems but, many do. It is the one area I would (in hindsight) put at the top of the list when building a shop and I would get the best that I could afford. I currently run a 2HP cyclone, a 1HP bagger with a custom fabric filter and 2 vacs with dust deputies. I catch most of the dust at the source and (now) I wear a respirator for all those invisible little boogers that get by.

Have fun and play safe :thumb:

P.s. Dad has had a 2HP unit similar to the Jet you show for many years. It is in a shed attached to the shop with no shared airspace and does very well with the stock filter. The shed is full of dust showing the ineffectiveness of the bag filter but, the shop is not. A bagger will move much more air than a comparably powered cyclone. If I could exhaust without needing to return the air to my shop I would skip the cyclone and let 'er rip.

A very fine filter is required to make the return air safe to breath. A cyclone keeps the really fine filter from getting clogged. One requirement leads to the other ;-)
 
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I might add that for the route I went, the flex/expanding hose, you have to buy the attachments specific to that hose. They got you there. I came home for Rockler thinking I could just hook it up using the same connectors I had been using on the regular heavy less flexible 4" DC hose I had been dragging around.
 
I have to admit the main reason I bought my HF dust collector several years ago was for collecting all the mess from the jointer, planer and TS. I really didn't think much about the dust. I now look at it as a health issue as well and have bought a canister filter for it.

My hoses look like an explosion at a spaghetti factory. I would love to pipe everything in some day in the near future but for now they look like heck but work fine. Plus one on the easy off flange fittings. They make switching hoses really fast and simple.

The jet on CL looks like a pretty good deal but you can get the HF unit for $149 brand new.
 
Thanks to all for your comments. Based on my preconceived notions, your comments, and my limited scope of work, it appears my best application would be a portable unit (1.5-2 HP) with a minimum of 5 micron air filtration. This would provide a lot more suction & cleaner air than my Shop-Vac. Larry, your comments about using a respirator is one I'm going to take seriously. better sooner than later!
 
...with a minimum of 5 micron air filtration...

I'd shoot more for the 1.0 micron or smaller range myself. That's pretty easy to do with a cartridge filter or high-quality bag. (I'm in the cartridge camp myself.)

Like a lot of guys, I've upgraded my DC capabilities, starting with a shop vac, then a shop vac with separator, to my current Harbor Freight 2 hp single stage DC modified with a cartridge filter and internal Thien separator. I just use a single flex hose moved from machine to machine, which gets much of the sawdust, but definitely not everything. And of course the machine I use the most - the lathe - really isn't suited for effective dust collection. Although I have a Big Gulp scoop at the lathe, it's only getting some of the airborne stuff. That's one of the reasons I use a Trend Airshield for face protection. The 4" hose on the DC makes for fast chip cleanup afterward, though.
 
Seems like a decent deal to me. You can add a filter for another ~$150 (depending on shipping area):
http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm
and that includes three poly bottom bags. You're likely to pay for a filter like that one way (up front with the dc) or another (aftermarket) unless you get real lucky on a deal :D

I believe that the Jet has a 12" impeller, the HF I have only has a 9.75" which is a decent difference in suction and imho worth the $50 difference. Its also a lot beefier motor which can't hurt long term (note that it is a 220V unit - can't remember how you're wired).

Once you start producing shavings from a planer or joiner they can stack up really quickly even for small projects. I have a 30g drum on my HF "2hp" DC and in only 15-20 minutes of planing with a 12" planer I can fill it up to overfull and I'd be afraid of a smaller than 4" hose clogging up with lighter stuff. Even with my old lunchbox planer I could fill a few 50g bags/day if I was doing a "large" (for me) project. A few years back I made some cedar planters and gates out of some leftover fence and in < 1 day had roughly a dozen 50g of shavings (luckily the neighbor needed mulch :D) - they're so light they really fill up a container quickly. More recently I planed ~20 16"x8" pear wood boards down for a project and filled the 30g drum plumb full (again about 30 minutes of work).

So just for the capacity having a larger unit is pretty darn nice. I mostly wish I'd put a 50g drum under the thein baffle instead of a 30g.

It also works a heck of a lot better than a smaller vacuum for high volume chip producers like planers, etc.. I use the vacuum for most sanding and similar because its higher suction in a smaller area works well for that.
 
Thanks to all for your comments. Based on my preconceived notions, your comments, and my limited scope of work, it appears my best application would be a portable unit (1.5-2 HP) with a minimum of 5 micron air filtration. This would provide a lot more suction & cleaner air than my Shop-Vac. Larry, your comments about using a respirator is one I'm going to take seriously. better sooner than later!

5 microns is substantially larger than cigarette smoke; very visible. Here's some food for thought:

microns.JPG
 
When does one need a dust collector ?


Well actually the correctanswer is anytime you are cutting sanding or otherwise processingwood where it will produce dust. Speaking from personal experienceone cannot be too careful. I did not have adequate dust collectionand as a result I now cannot work with wood due to severe allergicreactions. And I should have known better. I worked in theenvironmental field and even gave lesson of particulate monitoringyet I did not take the proper precautions. Vaughn is correct that afilter at 1 micron is the way to go or even better yet. Have the dustcollector take the dust entirely out of the shop is the very bestway. There are three level of dust particulate to worry about. Theenvironmentalist call it PM levels PM 10 is 10 micron, PM 2.5 is 2.5microns and PM 1 which you can probably guess is 1 micron. Anythingbigger then PM 10 your body will filter out and will only be anirratent. But at 10 micron or less they it will get in you lungs. 1micron will not only get in the lung but once there will be absorbedinto you blood stream and then be carried to other organs.
Bill Penze who developed acyclone dust collector has done a lot of studying on the dust foundin the shop he even came to me when he was buying his detectionequipment to do some studies for a recommendation as to whichinstrument to buy for his studies. You can read a lot of informationon his web page.
Please take proper protectionfrom wood dust before you end up like me. Unable to pursue you hobby.
 
I think many of us have gone through these steps. I started with the shop-vac and bought various attachments and adapters to fit it to different things (that's spend #1). I then got a 1HP bagger on sale with the usual inadequate filtering and bought various attachments and adapters to fit it to different things (that's spend #2). I work in an enclosed space and so modified the bagger to try to make it do the job; better filtering, dedicated circuit, etc. (that's spend #3).

I ended up doing permanent damage to my sinuses (that's spend # "the rest of my life") and finally bought a cyclone with a micron filter and ran 6" ducting, dropped to 4" at the blast gate at the machine and can now work again. I do have to wear a respirator even when hand sanding but, that is a result of not doing enough about dust collection, soon enough as I was well advised by many on this and other forums. This is not something I get to un-do or make up for, I'm stuck with it.

Whatever path you choose, until you can work without creating a dust environment that you would consider unsafe for a newborn, wear a respirator. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer and not everyone who works in a dusty atmosphere gets respiratory problems but, many do. It is the one area I would (in hindsight) put at the top of the list when building a shop and I would get the best that I could afford. I currently run a 2HP cyclone, a 1HP bagger with a custom fabric filter and 2 vacs with dust deputies. I catch most of the dust at the source and (now) I wear a respirator for all those invisible little boogers that get by.

Have fun and play safe :thumb:

P.s. Dad has had a 2HP unit similar to the Jet you show for many years. It is in a shed attached to the shop with no shared airspace and does very well with the stock filter. The shed is full of dust showing the ineffectiveness of the bag filter but, the shop is not. A bagger will move much more air than a comparably powered cyclone. If I could exhaust without needing to return the air to my shop I would skip the cyclone and let 'er rip.

A very fine filter is required to make the return air safe to breath. A cyclone keeps the really fine filter from getting clogged. One requirement leads to the other ;-)

I was not going to read any responses until I had my say. However, as I was skipping down to the end I saw Glenn's avatar and stopped. Listen to him. He said it very well. I am still going to post a reply separate from this one. I want to look up how to do something first.

Enjoy,
JimB
 
Hi Again,

I was hoping to show you an easy way to see all of the posts I have made on dust collection. I cannot find a way. HEY FAM WOOD WORK GURUS---HOW IS THIS DONE? There is a heck of a lot of valuable information out there for a person who knows how to find it.

I studied dust collection for months before I purchased my unit. It was from PennState Indjustires. It came with 1 micron filtration. It was approximately the same price as Harbor Freight's unit. It is a DC 2000. It is 2hp. It is mostly adequate. It does not have enough horsepower to do the lathe. It is a lot better than nothing for the lathe but that is all I can give it. It works great on the bandsaws, drillpress, thickness planer, all of the power sanders (12" disk, belt, oscillating, ROS, hand belt, etc.), It keeps the under-the-table part of the table saw just fine. I do get more dust than I want above the table. I do NOT have above the table collection for the TS.

It does noticeably keep the air cleaner at the lathe. However I still get a lot of stuff on my feet.

OK. Why does the 2 hp unit work so well where it works well? I have the absolute minimum possible flexible ducting (the convolutions raise absolute heck with air flow). There is not a right angle (90*) turn in the system (any turn reduces air flow. The more gentle the turn, the less loss). After spending very many hours computing air volume, air speed, losses due to duct length and design, etc. I read where one man, who did the same thing, said, "I gave up and ran 6 inch hard ducting every place I could and it works fine." Basically that is what I did. All runs are 6 inch all of the way to the collector itself. I did use 4 inch hard drops where practical and 4 inch flex where it was not.

To put it another way, I did everything possible to disturb the airflow the least! I gave my 2 hp every advantage that I could. It repaid me by doing better than any other 2 hp system I have seen. However, I wish I had more HP because of the lathe. If I were to do it again I would sacrifice somewhere else and get more air movement.

A common misconception is that the dust collector sucks up the dust. The dust just gets picked up by the rapidly moving air flow. I could have a 20 hp dust collector that would not keep my scroll saw clear if the air flow was not moving. Think of the vacuum cleaner sales gimmick---the vacuum cleaner will pick up a bowling ball. That does not mean that it picks up dust or dirt. It takes very little to pick up a bowling ball. Years ago there was an ad on TV (I think it was Orick) a little hand vacuum, powered with flashlight batteries, picked up a bowling ball. I don't think it would make much of a dust collector however.

If you are interested in the technical stuff look up Bill Penz (dot org or com or something else) on the web. Do you want to know what size particles get into the lungs and cause the most damage? I'll guarantee you it is way less than 3 microns (1 micron will get most of it). Want to know how long that stuff stays in the air after a bit of belt or ROS sanding? Bill's site will tell you.

Do I think dust collection is important? The first tool I purchased was my dust collection system. I will shut up now. If you have any questions or want to know the dust collector goofs I made, let me know. Jim C Bradley

Enjoy,
JimB
 
Thanks Jim. Between you & Glen I think you have have covered throughly. With that, I'm in a much more knowledgable position to go forward.
thanks.
 
I have all of my major tools permanently connected to my DC... the table saw, band saw, and both lathes... I also have the Rockler upside down sabre saw that I thought I just had to have that I connect to the shop vac when I use it.... I still have a fine thick coating of dust on everything in my shop... the DC will collect a portion of the dust, but not near all of it. I've found one of my best solutions on the lathe is it's position in the double door way of my shop, I open the doors and set a fan behind me blowing out the doors... keeps a good portion of the dust out of the shop. Doesn't work quite so well in winter if it's cold since I can't open the doors, but works well in summer. My chop saw and planer I generally use outside or in the doorway so the dust goes outside.
 
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