DC; a little underwhelmed?

John Case

Member
Messages
23
Location
New Jersey
Hello,
Hope everyone had a great weekend.

As I stated in another thread.
I have the HF 2hp duct collector that I installed the thien baffle in.

The DC is in the garage (workshop in the basement) I ran 4" pipe threw the wall. I left the wye on the DC so I can also have dust collection in the garage as well.

I'm a little underwhelmed about the amount of suction it has. I attached a 2.5" shop vac hose and started to vacuum up the floor. It sucks it all up! Which is good.
But if I put my hand over the hose there is not enough suction to keep in on my hand without falling off. Is this normal?

I may eliminate the dust bag and pipe the exhaust to the outside world, not sure about that yet.

Picture 1: Shows a shop vac hose attached. I will eventually make a distribution box with sliding ports to as a central blast gate distribution point.
Picture 2: DC in the garage, I will eventually move the blower unit 90 degrees and up the wall to connect directly to the separator as well as eliminate the long hose to the PVC pipe in the wall.
Picture 3: Pipe threw the wall with a port for expansion.
Picture 4: Pipe turning over been with a sweeping el dropping at 45 degrees.

IMG_20130617_105548_258.jpgIMG_20130617_105353_414.jpgIMG_20130617_105449_487.jpgIMG_20130617_105526_523.jpg

Thanks,
 
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Yes, it's normal. The DC is relying on air VOLUME flowing through the piping, and its vacuum 'pressure' is much less than a shop vac would be. The smaller pipe/hose is restricting air flow. Ideally, 6" piping throughout would be best, but for many shops (mine included) that's not very practical. I'm using 4" PVC piping throughout mine, with a 2hp DC. My DC has a 'Y" fitting on the 6" inlet, for two 4" pipes, and I usually have both inlets in use - one to the tablesaw, and the second one to either the bandsaw(s), jointer, planer, or the drum sander. It works very well in that configuration.

I have a 3 foot diameter, 6 foot high, American Fabric Filter bag on mine, which replaced the constantly-clogging filter cartridge. I get excellent airflow with this setup.
 
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Yes, it's normal. The DC is relying on air VOLUME flowing through the piping, and its vacuum 'pressure' is much less than a shop vac would be. The smaller pipe/hose is restricting air flow. Ideally, 6" piping throughout would be best, but for many shops (mine included) that's not very practical. I'm using 4" PVC piping throughout mine, with a 2hp DC. My DC has a 'Y" fitting on the 6" inlet, for two 4" pipes, and I usually have both inlets in use - one to the tablesaw, and the second one to either the bandsaw(s), jointer, planer, or the drum sander. It works very well in that configuration.

I have a 3" diameter, 6 foot high, American Fabric Filter bag on mine, which replaced the constantly-clogging filter cartridge. I get excellent airflow with this setup.


Thanks Jim
 
I never vacuum my shop floor with the DC anyway, at least not any more. Picked up too many screws, bolts washers and such that I had dropped. I figure that is not good for the impeller. I have a Ridgid vac for that with the Dust Deputy for that.
 
These guys have you covered pretty well. The only thing I'd add is that the Thein baffle doesn't do anything to increase suction or airflow or anything. All it does is slow down how fast your filter gets clogged, which leaves you with "maximum suction" for longer than without it. Spares you some cleaning time, basically. :)
 
Jim, your set-up is exactly what I had envisioned for my shop: DC in garage piped to shop in basement, using the HF 2HP DC (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html).

However, I've been convinced by the "Bradley Team" that a 5 micron filter is inadequate for health safety. So, I'm planning on installing a 1 micron hanging Air Filtration system (similar to Grizzly/Jet/ Rikon), etc.) centrally located over the heavy dust producing equipment.

This will leave my Shop-Vac/Dust Deputy for miscellaneous shop cleanup as Paul does.
 
Just adding credence to what has been said. Air Flow / Speed in a DC is what keeps particles suspended and moving along. I am amused by Rockler and others that market handles and fittings (often shown in use by a smiling and happy model complete with apron and safety glasses) that allow one to use a dust collection blower as a shop vac :D. Oh it will pick up the lighter spoil but, that's not what I generally use a shop vac for. I do use a 4" DC hose to scoop up anything in my path if I am moving it from one machine to another (conservation of effort in my declining years :thumb:). I imagine a more powerful blower could do a better job but, hauling a 4" super-stretch hose around to vacuum with works about as well for me as killing enough floor space to allow clear access to a floor sweep fitting. I have better use for that real estate but, now I'm rambling . . . :rofl:.
 
Just adding credence to what has been said. Air Flow / Speed in a DC is what keeps particles suspended and moving along. I am amused by Rockler and others that market handles and fittings (often shown in use by a smiling and happy model complete with apron and safety glasses) that allow one to use a dust collection blower as a shop vac :D. Oh it will pick up the lighter spoil but, that's not what I generally use a shop vac for. I do use a 4" DC hose to scoop up anything in my path if I am moving it from one machine to another (conservation of effort in my declining years :thumb:). I imagine a more powerful blower could do a better job but, hauling a 4" super-stretch hose around to vacuum with works about as well for me as killing enough floor space to allow clear access to a floor sweep fitting. I have better use for that real estate but, now I'm rambling . . . :rofl:.

Glenn,
I've considered the Dust Right 4" expandable hose to move from machine to machine instead of hard plumbing to each...

Anybody have any feedback to going that way?
 
It's interesting you ask about the Rockler hose, I had just read a post on another forum where the fellow was extremely unhappy with it. The only comment I'll have is that flex hose always reduces your air flow, a long one more so (obviously) than a short one.
 
I have that hose and it works well in my little shop. I don't have enough room to have "stationary" tools and have to move them around when I need them. Maybe not the best system, but what I have. One thing to note, the connector for a norman 4" hose set up does not fit that hose quick connect setup. You have to by the connectors specific to it. If the flex hose is the way you go, I can send you a couple pictures of how I set up the connectors.
 
It's interesting you ask about the Rockler hose, I had just read a post on another forum where the fellow was extremely unhappy with it. The only comment I'll have is that flex hose always reduces your air flow, a long one more so (obviously) than a short one.

Yeah he was mostly unhappy about it on a planer which is a hard one anyway. I have a short length of 5" flex hose from mine which works ok, but I did have some non trivial issues with the volume of chips clogging up my thien setup. I still get some chips left behind which can be annoying (occasional board dimples). I blame that mostly on the HF not having quite sufficient suction for my planer.

I could see having the slinky hose as a pull down for vacuuming alright - I have a section of 4" flex tucked between the BS and the TS I pull out and use for vacuuming up around the lathe and work bench. With the volume of chips I get in those locations a shop vac wouldn't cut the mustard. The 4" is kind of a bulky blob of junk for that though so a more compact storage would be nice (again I think overhead and pull down would work best for me - cause I could get around all the other junk easier that way.. in theory).
 
...However, I've been convinced by the "Bradley Team" that a 5 micron filter is inadequate for health safety. So, I'm planning on installing a 1 micron hanging Air Filtration system (similar to Grizzly/Jet/ Rikon), etc.) centrally located over the heavy dust producing equipment...

Personal opinion, but I think your money would be better spent on a 1 micron (or smaller) filter for your DC than on an overhead air cleaner. (I have both.) In order for the overhead filter to pick anything up, the dust needs to be airborne, and by then, you're already breathing it. A better approach IMO is to limit the amount that becomes airborne in the first place by using a better filter on your DC. Of course this doesn't prevent ALL of the dust from becoming airborne, but it catches a lot more than an overhead unit does, and it catches it before you have a chance to breathe it. Adding an overhead filter AFTER improving your DC filter does make sense; it will help catch some of the bits that the DC misses.
 
On the flex hose issue, that's all I've ever had on my DC. Haven't had any issues with it clogging. I don't do a large volume of planing, but I do generate a lot of curlies at the lathe. Big piles of wet curlies typically get swept and shoveled away, but anything less than about a 5 gallon bucket's worth gets sucked up with the 4" flex hose on the DC. I did remove the crosshairs at the inlet of my DC, but haven't had any clogged hose issues. Also as an FYI, an empty Coke can can travel down 20' of flex hose faster than you can say "Quick! Where's that remote!" Makes an impressive sound when it hits the impeller, too. :D
 
I'll chime in on that ambient air cleaner as well....like Vaughn said, by the time it gets trapped there, it's already in your lungs. So I'll also second tighter filtration on the DC, catching the dust at the source point is by far the best approach.
 
+2 on the air scrubber.

You'd do better to pick up a Wynn cartridge filter for your HF dc, run as much rigid duct (as big as you possibly can get up to 6") for as long as you possibly can and as little flex as you can ... you'll get way more suction out of that wynn cartridge filter and you'll serve your lungs a lot better than having the scrubber going. Mine only comes on when i realize i was too late to get the DC to suck it out first - or when i can't adequately position the DC to get the dust better (like when using my belt sanders or resawing)
 
Vaughn, I agree with your comments, particularly regarding catching the dust before it gets airborne & possibly in your lungs. Plus, the cost of the Wynn filter (http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm) is significantly less than an air filtration system ~ 1/2 as much, and that is a good thing indeed! It appears the Spun Bond Polyester would be the better long term value since it can be cleaned & has a higher burst strength.

Since I am currently set-up with the Dust Deputy, with the 2 1/2" hose, it appears that I probably should consider using 4" hoses attached to the 4" wye on the HF DC, & then running the (2) lines to the biggest dust makers. For me that would be the TS & either the router, jointer, or the band saw. Frankly, I don't use any of these very often. My goal is simply to keep the dust out of my lungs (or anyone else's) when using the equipment & out of the adjacent finished living area (wife has an interest here).

The Dust Deputy with the Shop Vac can be used as a portable system for misc applications.

Bottom line is I'm going to heed your suggestion as a serious alternative. Sounds like the way to go!
 
I agree that a better dust collector filter is a better investment than an air cleaner.

I recommend that you NEVER use your single stage (bag type) dust collector as a floor sweep. All the sweepings including screws and nails go through the impeller. If the impeller creates a spark, it ends up buried in sawdust, and can smoulder for hours before catching fire.

Different story with a cyclone, where the dust, chips, and screws are dropped BEFORE they go through the impeller.
 
Great suggestion Charlie. To clean the floor & other misc things, I intend to use my Shop-Vac with the Dust Deputy. The HFDC will be dedicated to sawdust only directly from the cutting machine.
 
I agree with Vaughn about the filter for the DC.

If you want to get creative you can build an air scrubber for $50 or less. Mine was less built from scrap & a donated 3 speed fan from a forced air heat system. It also has a bag filter on the inside purchased from Grizzly. I moved my system & had to put it where the door wasn't convenient to open to remove & replace the pleated filters so I used sheet metal angles attached to the front of the system to hold 2 pleated filters. If hung where the door could be opened easily I could have 2 filters inside & 2 outside.
 

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