Right Tool for the Job?

Ian Brennen

Member
Messages
5
Hi Guys. This is my first post and I am brand new to the forum and to woodworking. I keep finding myself working with wood and want to develop my knowledge and skill, so I thought I'd join the community. Thanks for bringing this forum to life. It's a great resource.

I would like to make a round wooden lid out of 5/8" wood for a small pot. I would like it to be 2-5/8" diameter (same as the pot so it sits on top) with 1/4" more cut away around the bottom half (so that the bottom of the lid sits snug in the jar mouth.) I have one for another jar, and I would like to replicate it almost exactly. I am linking pictures to that lid. You can see in the picture that the lid I have has a space cut out for a rubber gasket. I am not sure I will need to do that, but possibly.

I would appreciate any suggestions on the best tools for this project. I am not very experienced with most saws, routers, etc., but excited to learn.

I have access to a tool library in our neighborhood that has an awesome selection. Thanks in advance and again and happy to be here!

-Ian

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WELCOME to the forum. Glad you joined up. In my opinion the best tool for that job is a wood lathe. I suppose you could use the right size hole saws. It would put a hole in the middle from the drill bit, you would be able to patch that with a dowel. But for me the easiest would be the wood lathe.

Hang on though, there will be other pipe up that are a lot more experienced than me.
 
I'm like Paul; I saw the "sample" lid and immediately thought wood lathe!

Before I owned a lathe, I turned a couple of small items on my drill press by rigging up a vertical tool rest, etc. But that's certainly not ideal.

Does the "tool library" in your neighborhood include a lathe and the hand-held tools (gouges, parting tool, etc) that are needed to use it? If so, we can probably help you through the process of mounting a piece of wood and removing the bits you don't want any more.

If not, I'd be happy to make the lid myself and send it to you ... but I may not have the right kind of wood, and you may not learn what you wanted to by doing it yourself.

Either way ... we're here for ya! :thumb:
 
Paul and Kerry,

Thanks guys! They do have a small wood lathe, drill powered and a gouge. I didn't see any parting tools. I may be able to just buy some though (if needed). Any advice on sizes?

The library is open tomorrow morning, so I am going to try to be there early and pick the lathe up! Have to work all weekend, so might not be around until Monday. Very excited to get started!
Thanks again for the advice!
 
One other thing, Ian, you might post where you are located. There may be a member or turning club close by that has a lathe and would be willing to have you over. That way you can see how it is done on a real lathe and get some experience with the help of a member.
 
They do have a small wood lathe, drill powered and a gouge. I didn't see any parting tools. I may be able to just buy some though (if needed). Any advice on sizes?

Drill-powered, eh? Hmmm. That will probably limit your options for mounting the wood to the lathe, but since this is a "spindle turning" project (as opposed to a "bowl turning" one) that shouldn't be a big deal.

My larger concern is whether the lathe will have sufficient power to turn a lid of that diameter. If the blank is not too large, and not too hard, there shouldn't be a problem. Either way, having sharp tools will help a bunch.

You'll mostly use the gouge (moving horizontally along the surface of the spinning wood) to arrive at the overall shape of the lid, and the parting tool (pushing the tool straight into the spinning wood) to make the "gasket groove" and to cut most of the way through the wood on the ends. (Given the nature of the lathe, and your level of experience, you should plan to use a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface to finish off the top and bottom of the lid.)

The best size for the parting tool would be "slightly thinner than the gasket groove". :rolleyes: If you can't find such a thing, you might be able to grind your own from a screwdriver, butter knife, etc. (Does the library have any kind of grinder?)
 
A wood lathe is definitely the best tool for this job. :yes: And I'll second Paul's suggestion to let us know where you're located. We've got a lot of helpful folks here, and if someone is nearby, I'm sure they'd be glad to help get you started on the right foot. A little bit of mentoring on a lathe would be time well spent. ;)

As far as lathe tools to use with your loaner lathe, in addition to the gouge and a parting tool that Kerry mentioned, another important element is the capability to sharpen those tools. Trying to use a lathe with dull tools is like trying to frame a house with a rock. It can be done, but it ain't pretty. Here again, if you're close to a forum member who can guide you on some of the finer points, you'll save yourself a lot of time and frustration. :thumb:
 
You could make it with a router pattern routing it. The trick with that would be to avoid having the process be overly exciting in the work holding department with such a small piece. If I was to tackle it I'd probably do the same trick that turners use and take a larger piece and spot glue the workpiece to that (hot glue or white glue with a piece of brown paper bag in the middle or even superglue but something you can either pry or break apart later). You could then clamp the larger piece down securely. Now you just need a router with a bushing and an appropriately sized template. The template if inside (aka small round circle) would be slightly smaller than the desired size and then again hot glued on top of the workpiece so you'd have a workpiece sandwich - template, workpiece, glued on base for clamping. You could also do it with the template underneath and a pattern routing bit (workpiece, template, clamping base). You could theoretically also do an outside template (aka hole) but the setup for that makes my head hurt. You can route the lip into it with rabbet bit with a bearing on it.

If you were sufficiently patient you could hand shape the outer round part (I've done similar with a pattern, a rasp for coarse work, followed by a wood file). I'd probably still do the rabbets with a router+rabbet bit in that case.

If doing it this way; to get the gasket inset you'd want to use a slot cutting bit like: http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/2008236/21673/CMT-82200311-TWOFLUTE-SLOT-CUTTER-ROUTER-BIT.ASPX . Not sure on the cut order, depends on where each bits bearing lands.

Having said that, I'd use my lathe as well, but figured I'd throw out a latheless option :D
 
Thanks again guys for all of the advice. I'll pick the lathe up tomorrow (I hope) and post the specs as well as any other tools I get. Might as well give it a try, if nothing else I'll get to test out a new tool.

Thanks for the offer Kerry! Yeah I definitely want to acquaint myself with these tools, even if it doesn't turn out pretty the first few times. I live in Seattle. Anybody around these parts?

Vaughn, I'll inspect the tools and do a bit of research on sharpening gouges and parting tools. I guess I should also be looking for some blanks. 3"x3" I'm guessing? Are these available at hardware stores or do I need to visit a specialty shop/order online? I'm not too worried about wood type as I very well might end up doing a poor job.

Ryan, routers seem very versatile and cool. I'm definitely hoping to get my hands on one soon!
 
I picked up the drill driven lathe yesterday and tested it out with my Ryobi drill. Seems to work fine, but I am running into trouble mounting blanks to it. It has a Jacob's Mastercraft 1/2-20 chuck(?). It came with a 5" faceplate, but it did not come with the adapter that screws into the faceplate and is held in the chuck. From what I can tell I am looking for something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-20-Jaco...107?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd2f6046b

I am going to check the library now and make sure they don't have the adapter lying around somewhere.

Good news is the tool library has a great big lathe that someone just donated. They haven't tested it out and a bit hesitant to let someone use it before a pro does test it. I would have to use it at the library, so I am considering just buying a small lathe... It looks like something I could really get into using.

I also borrowed a a set of Crown Tools turning tools including:
1/16" Spindle Gouge
3/16" Spindle Gouge
3/32" Parting Tool
3/16" Round Nose Scraper
3/16" Oval Skew

Here are some photos:
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Can anyone tell me what this is for?
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A few things:

Check to see if the drill chuck will screw off the spindle to which it's attached now. I suspect the spindle is threaded the same as the faceplate. (Assuming that faceplate is actually part of this lathe setup.)

The Crown tools are good. They will still very likely need sharpening, but you might be able to get by with typical knife sharpening stones for as little as you're planning to use the tools. (Most of us sharpen our tools with a grinder and one or more special jigs.)

The pointy thing on the right side of the lathe bed you asked about is called the tailstock. It is used to help hold a piece of wood on the lathe. By loosening the bolt on the base, it can be moved up and down the lathe bed as needed.

If that little square blank of wood is what you're wanting to turn into a jar lid, I'm afraid you're going to be very disappointed. It looks like pine or fir, both of which are difficult to cut cleanly, especially by a novice turner. Also, the way it's cut means you'll be cutting into the end grain (with the grain running parallel to the lathe bed), which is even harder to cut cleanly. You'd be better off with a 3 x 3 x 3 cube of wood, oriented so the grain is running perpendicular to the bed of the lathe.

I'd still highly recommend that you see if someone in your area might be willing to give you a bit of mentoring...there are a lot of little details that can be explained very quickly in person that might get missed in a written description. I see the AAW has a chapter in your area, and most clubs have a number of members who enjoy helping out newbies:

http://seattlewoodturners.org/about/

Woodturning can be a lot of fun, but there is definitely the potential to get badly hurt if it's not done correctly. It's best to have some instructions to ensure you get started on the right foot. ;)
 
I'd feel slightly better cutting a piece like you want with a bowl gouge which I don't see in that set. Lacking that the parting tool (second from the bottom) is probably your best bet. Take LIGHT cuts!! A rough overview of how to use it is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_43nB2zTX8 A good start is to take a cut with ~1/2 of the tool at a time, and you won't get to hung up on anything... probably... One trick I found very useful when starting on the lathe was to set everything up and then spend ~5-10 minutes with the lathe OFF and just hand rotate it while presenting the tool to the workpiece. If something looked off there I'd step back, scratch my head and try to figure out what I was doing wrong. If I could take a nice shaving that way I'd gingerly do the same thing with the lathe on. One gotcha with that is the lathe turns the piece a whole lot faster so you have to back up on your motions a smidge.

If that little square blank of wood is what you're wanting to turn into a jar lid, I'm afraid you're going to be very disappointed. It looks like pine or fir, both of which are difficult to cut cleanly, especially by a novice turner. Also, the way it's cut means you'll be cutting into the end grain (with the grain running parallel to the lathe bed), which is even harder to cut cleanly. You'd be better off with a 3 x 3 x 3 cube of wood, oriented so the grain is running perpendicular to the bed of the lathe

+100, using sad wood makes a sad woodworker. Even some poplar from the local borg would likely serve you better. I feel sad thinking of all the potential woodworkers who gave up because apparently "they couldn't make a clean cut to save their life" when if they'd just dropped $20 on better wood (and 30m on sharpening :D) they'd have had such a better time.

I'd still highly recommend that you see if someone in your area might be willing to give you a bit of mentoring...there are a lot of little details that can be explained very quickly in person that might get missed in a written description. I see the AAW has a chapter in your area, and most clubs have a number of members who enjoy helping out newbies:

http://seattlewoodturners.org/about/

Woodturning can be a lot of fun, but there is definitely the potential to get badly hurt if it's not done correctly. It's best to have some instructions to ensure you get started on the right foot. ;)

Again +100. The subtleties here are pretty subtle and learning from the mistakes of others can sure save you a lot of time on making your own :D

Odds are actually good that the bigger lathe is both easier to use and probably safer (more stable, easier to turn on/off, etc...).
 
Just have to say thanks again for all of the direction and advice. I'll get myself some better wood that is cut in the right direction. Will be doing a lot of thinking about the proper setup this week.
 
It looks like one of the critical pieces is missing. in pictures 1 and 3 you can see a metal bar attached to the bed of the lathe, with a hole in the end. A tool rest goes in that hole. But I didn't see a tool rest among the leftover pieces. The tool rest is positioned close to the work, and holds the chisels steady. I would not think of using a lathe without a tool rest unless you like chisels flying through your shop.

I suspect that any full size lathe would be safer and easier to use than this little one.

The turning tools look so pristine that they may never have been used. Be aware that chisels are not sharp enough as they come from the factory... they need to be sharpened. Those are also very small tools (but maybe as much as that small lathe can handle). I have a 1/4 inch spindle gouge that is so small I rarely use it, but it is much larger than the two in that set. I have a 3/8" bowl gouge, and wish I had purchased a 1/2 inch. My scraper is 1 inch wide, compared to the 3/16 inch in that set. So if you decide to buy a lathe, don't buy a set of tools like that!
 
Charlie is paying closer attention than the rest of us. He's right about the apparently missing tool rest. You will definitely need the tool rest that attaches to that bar. (The bar is called the banjo, by the way.) I also had not noticed the sizes of the tools you listed. That is definitely a micro set, intended for turning teeny-tiny pieces. The smallest gouge I have is 3/8" and I think my smallest scraper is 5/8" or so wide.
 
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