securing pt 2x4's to a brick wall

Daniel Edney

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Good morning-

I wasn't sure exactly where to post this. I'm planning on building a vent hood above my outdoor grill. The wall behind the grill is brick. I'm assuming I use pressure treated 2x4's for the framing. I have cypress for the outer shell of the hood.

As for securing it to the brick wall, would I use tapcon screws, or some sort of anchor screw? I was also thinking of supporting the weight of the hood by connecting it to the ceiling above w/ more 2x6's inside the attic.

Thanks in advance.

I can post pictures if needed.
 
Daniel, you might be able to rent a hammer drill locally if you don't want to buy one. I bought one years ago and have only needed to use it a few times. It's one of those tools that doesn't get used a whole lot, but when it's needed, it's pretty much the only tool that will do the job. ;)
 
you want to put the screws into the joints not the brick itself. the bricks most likely will crack if you try to set bolts or screws into them. Also, use adhesive as a secondary fastener. PL Premium urethane construction adhesive on the 2x4's then bolt them on. The urethane will not foam it comes in a 10oz caulking tube if you aren't familiar with it. Wet the bricks down with a squirt bottle then attach. This will allow the urethane to cure and bond with the brick. (don't panic if you hear the sound of bacon frying its the urethane curing.)
 
you want to put the screws into the joints not the brick itself. the bricks most likely will crack if you try to set bolts or screws into them. Also, use adhesive as a secondary fastener. PL Premium urethane construction adhesive on the 2x4's then bolt them on. The urethane will not foam it comes in a 10oz caulking tube if you aren't familiar with it. Wet the bricks down with a squirt bottle then attach. This will allow the urethane to cure and bond with the brick. (don't panic if you hear the sound of bacon frying its the urethane curing.)

Good point Rich. It's best to do that when possible. But make sure you put the anchor in the horizontal mortar joint and not the vertical joint. Very important.
 
Wow i got two tips out of one thread. Bob why horizontal as opposed to vertical?

Rich thanks for the tip on the pl glue re water on bricks never knew or heard that before.

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Great point on the horizontal joint Bob!

Intuitively I would think that the horizontal layer of mortar is "compressed" (although water doesn't compress, but a mortar mix can to some degree) by the weight of all the bricks above to provide a more uniformly consistent mix & resulting stronger structural bond. Whereas the vertical joints serves more as a space "filler" between the bricks to maintain their alignment.

Also, the horizontal joint is only a layer thick which allows a fastener to be installed between bricks. If using the vertical joint, which is as "tall" as the brick height, the fastener could pull the mortar out.
 
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you want to put the screws into the joints not the brick itself. the bricks most likely will crack if you try to set bolts or screws into them. Also, use adhesive as a secondary fastener. PL Premium urethane construction adhesive on the 2x4's then bolt them on. The urethane will not foam it comes in a 10oz caulking tube if you aren't familiar with it. Wet the bricks down with a squirt bottle then attach. This will allow the urethane to cure and bond with the brick. (don't panic if you hear the sound of bacon frying its the urethane curing.)

What Rich said! :thumb:
 
Great point on the horizontal joint Bob!

Intuitively I would think that the horizontal layer of mortar is "compressed" (although water doesn't compress, but a mortar mix can to some degree) by the weight of all the bricks above to provide a more uniformly consistent mix & resulting stronger structural bond. Whereas the vertical joints serves more as a space "filler" between the bricks to maintain their alignment.

Also, the horizontal joint is only a layer thick which allows a fastener to be installed between bricks. If using the vertical joint, which is as "tall" as the brick height, the fastener could pull the mortar out.

My somewhat uneducated guess on it:

In most cases, the primary forces on the fastener are downward. (Actually, downward at the face of the wall and upward at the pointed end of the fastener, as it pivots while being pulled down.) Putting the fastener in a horizontal joint takes advantage of the strength of the bricks in keeping the fastener in place. If the fastener was in a vertical joint, it would only have relatively weak mortar above and below to support it.

Screw in Wall Annotated.jpg
 
Al and Vaughn pretty much nailed it. I wouldn't be too bothered using a Tapcon directly into the brick as long as you stayed at least 5 times the diameter of the anchor you are using from any edge of the brick and the thing that you are hanging isn't too heavy. It could break out but its not as likely with a non expanding anchor like a tapcon. Brick is pretty brittle. A sleeve anchor will give you more holding power (depending on the diameter) in both pullout and shear but you would definatly have to use the horizontal mortar joint. You can get sleeve anchors with a flat slotted head to give it a more finished look.
 
Wow, I've missed out on some good conversation here! I thought I set this thread to update me via email when someone else replied.. Anyway, I went ahead & fastened the 2x4's to the brick wall using the tapcons and adhesive. I did, however, put the tapcons in the middle of the brick, not the mortar... The majority of the weight will be supported at the top, by fastening it to 2x6's in the ceiling.

Here's another question. I'm building the frame of this hood out of pt 2x4's. I'm putting some old, very old cypress boards 1 1/8x 11 3/4x 3' (I just measured them) all the way around. It's going to be roughly 7' tall on one side, and 5' on the other (angled ceiling). I was told by one of my friends that I should wrap the 2x4's with plywood and then fasten the cypress boards to that. He says that over time, the boards will warp. My thinking is this; these boards are probably over 30 years old. If they were going to warp, wouldn't they have done that by now? They've been sitting out in the elements (south Louisiana) all this time. Do I really need they plywood? That seems like a lot of extra weight.

Thanks!
 
Here's a shot of one of the boards I have. I won't be using this one, due to the long crack in it. It was basically a test board to see how well I could clean it up.

2013-09-03_12-21-19_384_zps61c56ef2.jpg
 
2 points to ponder here. one the boards being over 30 years old have most likely forgotten they came from a tree so will have done most of their movement. That is not to say that they will not react to changes in their new environment. Bear in mind that you will be introducing possibly drastic changes when you fire up the grill. Heat, increased humidity alternating with dry heat and mostly on the inside surface. This can and may very well cause some problems.
Also, being wide boards they will want to move more than narrow ones.
Steps you can take to minimize this would be: first if you are going to have the natural beauty of the wood showing I would mark each board then rip to 4-6 inch widths, joint and reglue them back together aligning the grain. done carefully you will barely if at all notice the glue line. this will get rid of any internal stresses in the board and help alleviate the annular rings wanting to bend themselves straight (cupping)
Secondly use a good sealer to prevent excess absorbtion and surrendering of moisture. slowing it down will avoid any sudden stresses.
Thirdly and most importantly when you install allow for the wood to move. Fastening it firmly is what will lead to checking. The wood needs to move.
Good luck and looking forward to watching this project progress!
 
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