Lathe Tool Rests need some help here

Rob Keeble

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GTA Ontario Canada
So this winter I am planning on getting my lathe into the basement to do some spinny work during winter.
But.....I am not going to continue to live with the tool rest on this lathe.
I am not just referring to the piece we rest the tool on but the entire assembly that runs on the bed.
So I am thinking surely I must be able to buy a rest from another lathe as spare part and put it on my machine.

Anyone done this before.?

I want a rest that's easy to adjust and decent handle and that's machined properly.

Any suggestions on how to go about this if its possible?
 
For the sake of making the conversation a bit easier, let me start with a few definitions:

Tool Rest: The typically T-shaped metal thing your turning tools ride (and usually slide) on when you're turning. The horizontal part is sometimes called a crossbar; the vertical part is called the post.

Banjo: The part that is attached to the lathe bed and onto which the post of the tool rest is connected. The banjo is typically made of cast iron.

T-Nut: The t-nut is the heavy round or square steel plate attached to the bottom of the banjo. It's the part that goes under the lathe bed and locks the banjo in place. It is machined in such a way that the center portion of the plate fits between the ways of the lathe bed and the outer portion rides on the bottoms of the ways. It is typically attached to a bolt on the bottom of the banjo, and the bolt is attached to an eccentric mechanism that tightens the bolt quickly with a locking lever on the front or back of the banjo, but on older lathes the t-nut bolt is tightened directly with a wrench from above.

Lathe%20Banjo.jpg


It sounds like you're wanting to replace the banjo on your lathe. That's definitely doable. The first consideration is the height (thickness) of the banjo as well as how high it will hold the tool rest. If the part of the banjo that rides on the lathe bed is too thick, it will potentially limit the diameter you you can turn. And if the part that holds the tool rest is too tall or too short, the tool rest will not be usable. So, for example, you could find a way to mount the banjo from a full-sized lathe on a Jet mini, but it likely wouldn't be usable. Same thing if I was to put a banjo from a Jet mini on my Powermatic. So the replacement banjo needs to be somewhere in the same ballpark size-wise as the original.

The second consideration is that you need to make sure the inner part of the t-nut is sized to fit between the ways of your lathe bed, and the bolt has sufficient length to be able to position the t-nut where it needs to be. Both of those things can usually be remedied by someone with a machine shop if need be, although the parts from your old banjo might be usable on a new one.

The tricky part will be finding a banjo. The companies that make the bigger lathes (Oneway, Vicmark, Powermatic, Nova, etc.) sell replacement banjos, but they are not cheap. I believe replacement banjos are also available for most mini and midi lathes, but chances are they will be of similar quality to the ones you have now.

What lathes do you guys have? (I know you've told me, but I've slept since then.) And what are the specifics of your complaints? If the banjo is not staying in place, there are usually ways to fix it. Or if it's not sliding on the lathe bed when you want it to, there are often fixes for that, too. It might take a replacement part or two, or a bit of elbow grease, but I suspect fixing your existing banjos will be easier and less expensive than replacing them.
 
I have a Delta midi , unsure of the model # , in my case my banjo works fine, I simply would like a new tool rest. Mine has some wear & tear on it, and I'd like to either tune up the current one and/or replace it. Thinking of a curved bowl rest or simply a longer straight rest.


Ned
 
I think, from this thread that Rob has this lathe ]

B2198_zoom.jpg

Rob my Nova DVR had a sticky banjo for a while and I toyed with the idea of upgrading it to a Oneway Banjo, but in the end I took mine apart and went over it with a fine tooth comb, the parts that rub and slide together were not the smoothest, I'm talking about the shaft that is rotated just off center by the locking handle and the piece that it slides through that holds the T-bolt and T-nut. I took some sandpaper and hand sanded the parts up to a very fine grit, maybe #4000 or so, and make sure they were REALLY smooth, then I make sure that the part of the banjo that slides along the ways was also VERY smooth with no bad edges, this made a LOT of difference. I also put a piece of wood on my locking handle to make it fit my hand better and to make it a bit longer, that made it a whole lot nicer to use.

The ways of my lathe do take a beating from dried finish to the occasional dropped tool, so now and then I take a #400 diamond plate I have and just make sure my ways are also smooth.

Lastly I lubed the sliding parts of the banjo with some dry silicone lube, all in all it made a huge difference and I did not have to spend the money.

I'd give all of that a try first.

I'll post some pics later.

Cheers!
 
I have a Delta midi , unsure of the model # , in my case my banjo works fine, I simply would like a new tool rest. Mine has some wear & tear on it, and I'd like to either tune up the current one and/or replace it. Thinking of a curved bowl rest or simply a longer straight rest.

Cast iron tool rests are pretty quick and easy to smooth up. I've gotten rid of some deep gouges in mine by starting with a metal file, and working my way through the abrasive grits up to about 400 or 600 grit. I also keep a bar of paraffin wax at my lathe and periodically wipe the tool rest with it to keep it slippery.

The Robust tool rests Carol mentioned are great tools. I've got one of theirs, and also a Oneway curved bowl rest. I like them both a lot. Still, the vast majority of the time I end up using the cast iron one that came with my lathe.

And Rob, I'll second Stu's recommendation. Sanding and smoothing the bottom of your banjo, as well as lightly lubricating the other moving parts, will make a world of difference.
 
OK, this is my set up.....

banjo_zps7a5fe453.jpg


You can see that I added a wooden handle to my locking lever, this makes everything easier to operate.

under_banjo_zpsf66269ec.jpg


This is the underside of the banjo, the shaft you see there is all smooth and coated with dry silicone, it all slides very nicely.

Cheers!
 
Rob,

I have a Delta 46-460 midi. I was totally amazed when I put Johnson's wax (NOT the non-skid for floors kind) on the ways and the bottom of the banjo. The improvement was not just better, it was a whale of a lot better.

The can containing the non-skid wax is plainly labeled non-skid.

Enjoy,
JimB
 
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On the 1642...Robust 6" is amazing!! I have a couple specialty rests for pens, but the Robust stuff is hard to beat based on the stock Jet goodies.
Johnsons paste wax is the bomb!!! 3x a year on the ways and the bandsaw table...hard to dispute the results...but a good chunk of candle or canning wax is a good friend!
 
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Thank you all very much. I took a further look into this whole issue and now that I can use the correct terminology thanks to Vaughn, I will explain my issue.

My lathe as Stu gratefully highlighted is what I consider to be a marketing lathe. Dressed up to look like the real deal and priced low enough to sucker you into thinking its a deal well when I bought mine it was at $315.

The Banjo it came with is crudely manufactured and was made to give one the impression of "infinite adjustability" and ability to do outboard turning (yeah right). So it has an arm that swings in it.
The very first thing I did was to remove that sucker and I have been using the banjo minus this arm ever since....but the hole that this arm fitted in which is where I now have the bar for the tool rest sit is on the large side.
Also heights wise there aint much "meat" left in the hole when one adjusts the rest height and with the looseness in the hole you get an uncomfortable feeling when adjusting it. As if it could pop out.
Most of you hit on the issue of how your banjo slides and I guess this is my second big issue between the movement and the handle to release it.

I have been up to and played with some of the other machines out there when at stores and watching some You Tube videos and seeing how more competent turners than I adjust their rest with ease really got me thinking.

Mine is a conscious distracting effort. that frankly puts one off adjusting it and end up with make do and that is less than ideal full stop.

Talking note of Stus mods and others tips on cleaning up the banjo the bed etc may be worthwhile given I don't wish to sink a penny more into this junk. A pig remains a pig no matter how one dresses it up. Then I will see what lays in store for its fate.

I think I will definitely make a new handle for the banjo release. At present its a bar that slides either way and what a pain its forever getting in the way.
Will shim the hole with some round brass and do it full length and flare it so it stays in place.
If the fettling don't work then I think its time for a new lathe.

It had me thinking when I looked on Kijiji here the other night, and saw how many of the really junky lathes are for sale, as to how many people have got put off turning not because they could not get it right, rather because of the machine they bought.

I think I am on the path to a nice new smooth variable speed machine. :)

Thanks a ton for the input. Had I joined this forum before buying my machines I would never ever have made the mistake of buying this lathe.
Fortunately for me I don't have too much in it and my chuck will be transportable to new machine some day.
 
might be time for a tune-up

Rob,

If you are going to turn any at all on this lathe before upgrading I strongly advise a tune up on it. I bought a "new" used Craftsman lathe years ago on an impulse when I was picking up my NC router. Like yours, it looks like a lot more lathe than it is. It too suffered from the PITA to move the banjo and rest around syndrome. A good cleaning of all surfaces was a good start but then I had to deburr the top of the ways and the inside of the channel the banjo slides in, the underside as best I could, and don't forget the corners. A little wax and things slid around pretty well, I could move them without a battle. This only took a few hours and increased function of the lathe tremendously. Fighting and jerking is a great way to cause a trainwreck with even a smooth piece of wood in your lathe if you don't turn it off while moving the banjo. I know we all turn the lathe off, I can't remember who was turning when a couple of pieces of fire wood were created on mine . . . .

A quick add-on, I draw filed the surfaces which is very fast and leaves a nice surface. This is simply using a file as a scraper instead of filing with it. If you aren't familiar with draw filing I'm sure it is easy to find information. I assume you know how to draw file but I assumed a friend did when I loaned him a jig. I told him to draw file and he didn't indicate he didn't know how. My nice little jig that just rolled back and forth when someone draw filed was destroyed. I was hot, not so much over the fifteen dollar jig as over ruining it by not admitting he didn't know what draw filing meant!

Hu
 
Thanks Hu, what u recommend is exactly what i plan on doing.
Oh and i learnt to draw file at high school and have never forgotten because it got taught to me and my class with a cane on our behinds. :)
So you can say it was smacked into us. lol. Yup them were the days. ;) Funny how the memory seemed to open up and take in and retain that know how but other stuff did not stick. go figure.


Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
Rob,

A little negative reinforcement goes a long ways sometimes! I learned to draw file as a youngster too and it was one of those things so neat and so useful I never forgot. I built some match winning and record setting 1911's about ten years ago. There was a lot of draw filing involved since I bought oversized parts whenever possible.

I remember how to do things that I have done before with my hands and trivia. Hard facts from long ago . . . I have a theory that if I could wipe all the useless trivia from my brain it would be like a computer harddrive clean-up and I would think about 75% faster and have room for so much more stuff I need to learn. I know the brain fills up and can't learn anymore, got to be true since the older I get the harder it is to learn something new!

Maybe when I'm struggling to learn something I need to apply a couple whacks to my own backside or knuckles. Had a penguin at the Catholic school I attended for a couple of years that taught English. She was six feet three and had hands the size of boat paddles. When she popped you on the back of your head your eyeballs jumped out an inch and a half! I still know more about sentence structure and punctuation than most although I rarely use it, all dates back to that penguin who's name I have long forgotten that taught fifth grade english. Still remember her hands though.

Hu
 
Just an update to this thread.

I spent some time with the lathe and a good file and some wax, but the issue is actually more than the banjo.

Upon detailed inspection this lathe bed (one piece casting) has been very poorly machined. Not the bed surface but the sides of the ways (if that's what they called). Not just the sides but the thickness from bed to beneath where the piece that locks in place slides.
I started to work on the sides but when I found the thickness varied I gave up. They have done such a poor and speedy job of machining you can see the cutter chatter on the edges of everything.
I would have to have my own milling machine to make it worthwhile fixing this bed.

The banjo and the locking nut that goes beneath the bed is better after some filing and waxing but sliding it back and forth is a mission without the nut being so loose that when the banjo lever is turned rotating the cam bolt, you nearly go over the top to loose again.
That's what was bugging me in the first place.
Its not that it all does not work. Its just how much you want to fiddle between movements.

I will look around in my travels and business dealings and see if I can get a quote on machining the bed.

The other thing that is a nuisance that Vaughn way back came up with a solution for, which I have since found out why it occurs is the spindle and the tailstock do not line up.
Why?
Well the Machine head is rotatable for overhang turning. The way this is achieved is a huge collar with slots cut in it as keyways into which a pin set in the front of the head springs allowing indexing of the head on this collar turret. The head is secured to the bed by the same cam locking arrangement. So loosen the cam and you can wiggle the head either way.
So if I wiggle the head with the tailstock brought up to the spindle and two centers fitted then I can get it so that the points touch but I have to make sure to do that with the tailstock pushed over hard to one side for consistent alignment and make darn sure the head does not move.

I got so frustrated and mad trying to fix this whole lot I closed up shop and came inside. But ...today I feel the challenge creeping on of fixing this machine so it works properly. Just need to find a small shop willing to do machining at reasonable price. That's a oxymoron if ever there was one for the GTA area. :rofl:

There is a chicken and egg issue here that points at a new lathe in the future.

Turning on a machine like this is not fun. Its ok for a spindle with little accuracy needed like a tool handle etc.

So the result is one avoids playing on it. The other side of the coin is I am not that much of a spinny guy that I can justify a new lathe at this point in time given other things I want to do.

But winter is coming fast and I will go absolutely crazy now we empty nesters if I have to go without puttering/woodworking in the winter. Hand tools are my other option. So will have to see.

Thanks for the help guys.
 
Rob, I feel your pain, the company that sold you this machine should be ashamed, that being said, you get what you pay for. I know you will learn from this, and that is a good thing.

When I bought my Nova DVR I decided that it was the least I was willing to settle with, in all honesty I wish I had sucked it up a bit more and gone the full monty for the Vicmarc VL300 shortbed, it was another $1000, but 7 years on that would have been cheap. Don't get me wrong the Nova DVR is a very good machine, but it is not in the league of the Vicmarc VL300, again, you get what you pay for.

Cheers!:thumb:
 
Rob,

I suspect we are both beating the same dead horse. My headstock rotates too, and has a camlock to keep it in place. I carefully align things point to point, lock it very firmly in place, and often find later that the headstock has rotated a few degrees. This smacks you in the face when you turn a bowl or hollow vessel around for coring and the outer surface now needs major work. Like you I have found many workarounds to get by but it is a royal PITA! I have a couple of major slabs of nice grade aluminum, 6061 T6, thick enough to make riser blocks and I could create a sliding headstock that no longer rotates while doing it. That is a lot of time effort and cost to put into a lathe that still won't be much. I'm thinking when the time comes I will sell it to someone with a full explanation as a spindle lathe and small bowl and vessel lathe. It isn't a bad toy lathe, just when I expect it to actually handle what the paperwork says it can I'm badly disappointed!

Once you turn the lathe over you may be able to grind the thickness of the ways to an acceptable tolerance. I had some issues there too but it was mostly very sloppy casting. One area had to be thinned but I think it was only about an hour work or less.

Hu
 
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