Compressor..............Again....

OK, I need a new compressor, this is the next big thing on my list of things to buy.

I have a largish cheap compressor that died a while ago, even thought I put a lot of time and effort into fixing the compressor, the pump part of the unit, it is dead. Now I have a large tank 16 gallon, and the cheap 1 HP motor that came with the compressor. I was wanting to buy a Hitachi Bebicon, they are one of the best compressors made on the planet, IMHO and if I ponied up for a good one of them I'd be done, really done for a very long time, but, they are spendy, like maybe next year I can afford one. But I had an idea, what makes the Hitachi Bebicon so good? The short answer is the actual compressor, the pump, right? This got me thinking (which is always dangerous) if I could buy a good quality compressor pump and put it on my existing tank with existing motor, maybe that would do it? Sure, it will not be a Hitachi Bebicon compressor, but it would be a good quality pump (I don't know if Hitachi sells the pumps as a unit without the tank etc). I was thinking that if I buy one from say Grainer or somewhere and have it shipped over, I might be in business.

Also the task of removing my old compressor and tank from it's perch, as well as disposing of it would be time consuming and costly by itself.

I wonder if there are actual kits that you could buy to just ditch your old dead pump and replace the pump?

Please let me know you thoughts.

Another note, I'm using the heck out of my little jobsite compressor now, at this pace I'm going to kill that poor thing then need to buy another one of those too.....

You might try talking to the folks at Eaton Compressors and see if they ship to Japan. I've been very happy with mine, and they sell good pumps separately.

http://www.jennyproductsinc.com/pumps.html

IMO these are among the best.

My concern would be the 1hp motor. That's not a lot for driving a compressor, if you have a sprayer - or plasma cutter - that needs constant air flow. The 16 gallon tank you have isn't all that big, either. I know space is a big problem for you, but something like a small Ingersoll-Rand or Quincy upright compressor might serve you better. I don't know what the Hitachi you've mentioned costs, but the I-R or Quincy won't be cheap, either. Either one should pretty much be the last on you'll ever need, though.

I share Jim's concern about the HP. I would go for a 1.5hp -2hp motor.

Well it was an interesting idea, but I think in the end I'll just end up buying the Hitachi I want.

The one I'll get will be nice and I'll add some bells and whistles like the auto tank water emptier valve thingy.



Hitachi Bebicon 2.2P-9.5VD 5

Specs
Mass: 109Kg or 240lbs
Output (kW): 2.2 or 2.95 HP
Frequency: 50Hz
tank capacity: 80L or 21 US Gal
maximum pressure: 0.93MPa or 135 PSI
Operating system: Pressure switch type
outlet air: 1/4B (8A) × 2
Dimensions: 1280mm W × 365mm D × 807mm H or 50.3”L x 14.4” W x 31.8” H
Power supply voltage: Three-phase 200V
rotational speed: 730 rpm
cylinder diameter: 72Φmm
stroke: 65mm
Number of cylinders: Two
air delivery (L / min): 265L/mi or 9.36 CFM

I see it with free shipping on a site I deal with a lot for 160,000 yen ($1600) but I also found it on a site the deals with compressors only for 140,000 yen ($1400) and they are in Tokyo, not far, so maybe I could even go and pick it up, save the shipping cost. I'll have to figure out which is best, the first more expensive place I already have an account and I can use my CC and get points (which the wife loves!) the second cheaper place is most likely going to have troubles selling to me, not the regular thing they do, and I bet is it bank transfer only which costs me $25. Will need to call them and ask, or maybe just go and visit them...?

Cheers!

Sounds like you have the right idea. Buying a GOOD compressor is expensive, but worth it. I smile every time I use mine.

Vaughn McMillan said:

Sounds like you have the right idea. Buying a GOOD compressor is expensive, but worth it. I smile every time I use mine.

Click to expand...

Yeah, pay just the one time eh?

Do you think that the 9.36 CFM is enough to run most any air tool as well?

Stuart Ablett said:

...Do you think that the 9.36 CFM is enough to run most any air tool as well?

Click to expand...

It depends on how you describe "most any air tool". It would be much more than enough for sprayers and impact tools. Sanders may be pushing it. My little 2" Grex ROS eats about 8 cfm under load, and a 5" ROS shown on the Northern Tool website uses 9 cfm. And I don't think it would keep up well with die grinders and sandblasters, especially with the relatively small tanks. For example, the #1 selling die grinder at Northern Tools consumes 18 cfm under load. A quick scan of sandblasters on their website shows a range from 5 to 80 cfm.

What do you anticipate running?

It's important to know at what psi that it produces 9.36 cfm. If it's 90 psi than it will produce a lot more cfm at 40 psi. If it's makes 9.36 at 40 psi than you'll probably need an auxiliary or larger tank.

To answer your question 9.36 at 90psi is enough to run up to 4 framing nailers all day long. A bit of overkill if all you are going to run is a brad nailer

Vaughn McMillan said:

It depends on how you describe "most any air tool". It would be much more than enough for sprayers and impact tools. Sanders may be pushing it. My little 2" Grex ROS eats about 8 cfm under load, and a 5" ROS shown on the Northern Tool website uses 9 cfm. And I don't think it would keep up well with die grinders and sandblasters, especially with the relatively small tanks. For example, the #1 selling die grinder at Northern Tools consumes 18 cfm under load. A quick scan of sandblasters on their website shows a range from 5 to 80 cfm.

What do you anticipate running?

Click to expand...

Impacts and sanders would be the tools that I would want to run, as well as the plasma torch.

No way I'm getting a sandblaster, those things need to be run outside on a back lot somewhere!

Bob Gibson said:

It's important to know at what psi that it produces 9.36 cfm. If it's 90 psi than it will produce a lot more cfm at 40 psi. If it's makes 9.36 at 40 psi than you'll probably need an auxiliary or larger tank.

To answer your question 9.36 at 90psi is enough to run up to 4 framing nailers all day long. A bit of overkill if all you are going to run is a brad nailer

Click to expand...

It says that the max pressure is 135 PSI, I'm not sure at when it makes that, I'll try to find out.

OK I looked it up, it says that at max pressure of 135PSI it produces the 265L/mi or 9.36 CFM, so I would think that at a lower pressure of say 90PSI the CFM would be higher?

Cheers!

I'm assuming that you know that the compressor is a 3 phase. As for building your own compressor, I won't say it can't be done, and you could likely be very successful. But, as a note, when compressors are configured for tank size, pumps, and motors, they are matched for efficiency, and safety. There's reasons to see what the air tools' requirements are in matching it to a compressor, or the other way around.

Just a note about the size of the tank. It's relatively unimportant. Its size is usually matched to the capacity of the compressor. It's all on the compressor, not the gallon size of the tank. If the compressor output (CFM's) meets or exceeds the needs of the the gun/tool, you could (conceivably) spray without a tank. The tank provides stored air so the compressor can "cycle".

If the output of the compressor is marginally close to the required CFM's of the gun/tool, you still would have a problem when the compressor "kicks on" to refill the tank, it has to support the gun/tool at the same time.

Fortunately, when spraying, the trigger of the gun isn't pulled steady for too long. It's intermittent so to speak, and those times the compressor can play catch up. What's bad about the marginal match up is that if the compressor is more or less running constantly, it puts out hot air. And, from that, moisture can become a problem.

Now, if your compressor CFM is rated higher than the tool in question, there would be a happy medium of what the stored air (in the tank) could provide, and the compressor output.



.

Stuart Ablett said:

It says that the max pressure is 135 PSI, I'm not sure at when it makes that, I'll try to find out.

OK I looked it up, it says that at max pressure of 135PSI it produces the 265L/mi or 9.36 CFM, so I would think that at a lower pressure of say 90PSI the CFM would be higher?

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Wow, it's a monster

Bob Gibson said:

Wow, it's a monster

Click to expand...

I would think this would classify better as a monster!

I've been watching this thread and contemplating the same as Stu at first as far as possibly just replacing the pump. The problem with that is I have outgrown my single stage 60 gallon compressor so it wouldn't be money well spent. I also thought about upgrading to a larger pump but then I would need a larger electric motor and now we are getting close to what a new compressor cost with all the features I need.

Thsi is what I'm seriously considering.http://www.eatoncompressor.com/catalog/item/504747/206953.htm

5HP 2 Stage Single Phase 80 Gallon Vertical Air Compressor
Color Options: Purple

5HP 2 Stage Single Phase 80 Gallon Vertical Air Compressor
Price: $1,579.98
Availability: Built To Order - Call For Lead Time
Prod. Code: PP05V080I1
Model PP05V080I1
Description 5HP Two Stage Air Compressor
SCFM 17.0 @ 175 PSI
Max PSI 175
Motor HP 5HP
Motor RPM 1750
Voltage 208V/230V
Phase Single
Tank Size 80 Gallon Vertical
Pump Model APP2I0524T
Noise DB(A) 73
Outlet Connection NPT3/4"
Dimension: L*W*H(inches) 34" x 24" x 72"
Weight:LBS 660
Shipping Weight 678
RPM 800

Yup, that's a bigger monster

Unless both compressors run a multi person shop I can't imagine 1 person needing so much air though.
I've never heard of eaton compressors but the price seems pretty good.

Be sure your tank is ASME ll rated.

Alan, I've got this Eaton 5 hp single stage compressor, but I ordered mine with a 60 gallon tank (purple, of course) due to space considerations:




They basically use a pump that's rated for 7.5 hp and run it at half speed so it's not even breaking a sweat. I really didn't have the need for the extra PSI, and figured the single stage would result in cooler, drier air. All I can say it it's a beast...way more than I need, but I'm spoiled now and wouldn't want a shop without a monster compressor. I love the fact that it can catch up to my sander...it can fill the tank faster than I can use the air. I've been very happy with it. It has the biggest 5 hp motor I've ever seen. Makes the 5 hp compressors at the Borg look small.

Stu, if the tank on your old compressor is still good, you might want to hook both old and new tanks to your new compressor.

I hate starting my "big" compressor (small on the scale you are discussing), because it takes a while to fill the tank before I can do anything, and if I just wanted to shoot a few brads, I have wasted a lot of time, electricity, and air. If I were building a shop with a good (5 hp big) air compressor, I would include a small tank (5-10 gallons) that was always in the system, plus the big tank (that could be turned off with a valve). Then if I only needed a small amount of air, it wouldn't take much time to come up to pressure; if I were going to use a lot, one ball valve turn and I have a big system.

I am reluctant to leave a system pressurized. One friend had his compressor in an out-building to isolate the noise, and the air pipe leaked underground - his wife noticed that the compressor had been running continuously for a couple days. Another friend had an air pipe burst in the walls of his shop, and on Monday morning found a big hole in the Sheetrock.

Is there a concern with the old tank? Those things can rust and that can cause problems. I always drain mine after each use, because I do not use it often. I am always surprised at the amount of water that comes out when I drain the air out. I know very little about compressors, but I would not be brave enough to put a larger compressor on my tank than what originally came with it. Maybe that is not something to worry about, I don't know.

OK I'll get into the act and add my one-cents worth.

I have a Sears Caufield Hausere (or something like that name). I purchased it used over 50 years ago. It still works fine. I do drain it every time I use it. Because it is old, I do get a bit nervous every time I turn it on even though the switch is in the shop and the compressor is out in the "outhouse." Externally the machine looks fine.

Specs:
220 volt, single phase
20 gallon tank
10.7 cu ft / min
125 PSI

Delivers:
8.8 SCFM @ 40 PSI
7.4 SCFM @ 90 PSI

The bottom two figures will give you a vague idea how much air is delivered with a change in PSI for an air compressor (The data is specific for this machine.).

Enjoy,
JimB