Need some coaching and guidance (UPDATED WITH SOME CONCLUSIONS)

So i am back on the project i started making some custom shelves for my office. Following Glenns advice that being organized makes for better work environment. So i took some time out to do a little woodworking. Yeah i had to pick -13 celcius to go cut a bunch of ply for shelf draws. Well thats done and the IBox jig i say again for anyone that dont have one, BUY one. Its the best thing since sliced bread.

Alright draws are glued up and sanded and now i suddenly got cold feet and stopped in my tracks. Worse than a donkey.


Here is the issue. I worked out all nice and carefully the run of little draws i could get on this shelf. Could not believe myself being able to cut the wood then cut the joints and have the draws all come out to size and square. INCRA you amazing both in that Mitre Guage you make (what a pleasure not worrying about if its square) and the Ibox. I think the result was such shock it froze me in my tracks.

Now from the pics here



You can see the plan is to have these draws just slide friction fit between two shelves and a divider of 1/4 masonite. NOt pretty but i want the functionality more than pretty right now. Pretty can come later.

So i tested putting all my draws together with the masonite in between and voila it all fits like it was supposed to. (dont laugh thats a shock to me but i guess i have been hanging around with all of you here so something must have rubbed off by now).

But now even though i have marked the measurements on the wood, and have a router sled i got cold feet.

I need both top and bottom shelves dados for the masonite to be perfectly in alignment and i dont need creep. Next i have managed through cunning care to end up with a little room to maneuver and that was deliberate. BUt now i got to spread that spare space which is about 3/8 over 7 pieces of masonite and that affects the measurements.

So all you pros and brains out there throw me a bone please so i can cross this river without drowning and messing up the shelves.

I dont know what it is just mentally stuck on how to move forward.

Was going to go to the garage like i have done to cut the ply and use a 1/4 dado set but my table saw/fence combo wont do the whole shelf from one edge so i am chicken of trying that one.

Been thinking of doing them one at a time and using the actual draw and masonite for marking the cut line. And finding a piece of paper or card that would provide that extra to take up the 3/8.

On top of it all i am working in the basement in a very crowded space not ideal for this work but determined to get some woodworking in this winter.

Thanks in advance for any ideas help and suggestions.

Last question , am i crazy to think of running a 1/4 router bit in a 3.5 HP router.? My Milwaukee is what my cutting sled is set up for and i need to get a collet for it if i am going to use that. I used it for all my dados on the shelf so far.

Been thinking of using the Colt trim router and just clamping a guide in place but to me that just spells errors again.

Rob,
I would lay em out side by side so that you ill be working on both top and bottom at the same time. Then I would clamp a fence the correct distance from the intended cutter path and clamp it in place then I would simply rout the dados. I hope you get the jist of what I am saying. Repeat as many time as necessary.

don has it,, use a full length piece to cut the top and bottom at the same time as for clearance you show 1/4" but the stuff we have isnt 1/4" so you can get some breathing room there as well.. the colt would do it but the Milwaukee will sprint threw it practice on junk once to get the feel for it and make sure your clamped tight and some how anchor both piece together before any cutting so they dont move independently of each other for a misscut.

Re: Need some coaching and guidance

Ok thanks but any suggestions on how to layout? Given i need to spread 3/8 across 7 dividers.


sent from s4

divide .375 by 7 and add that to each space of drawer width or use paper shims to get a approx thickness and use a template to run your guide against 12" drawer plus your 1/4" hardboard plus the number you come up with in the math or paper. are all your drawers the same width? if so then your gonna have a easier job with just one template spacer.

Rob your looking at about 50 thousanths of an inch so just make it a pencil mark.

Not that it matters now but, I always build the carcass and fit the drawers to it. This is especially true of piston fit drawers which I make oversize and hand plane to fit. I fit the drawers from bottom to top and use the top as my 'adjuster' that I may make a smidge taller or shorter as required. Again, this can be done if you make the carcass first so let me move on to something useful .

You won't be planing that plywood and, your drawer size seems already fixed. The good news is that if you have a bit of extra room in the "socket" that the drawer will be fitting into, you can add some UHMW tape to make the sliding easier and take up the slack at the same time. If the drawers will have false fronts, your primary concern is fit and movement. Even if the drawers are not perfect visually, the false fronts can hide that. As to dividing up your excess; add an 1/8" to the bottom three locations and you're done with that.

If I hear you correctly, you are using 1/4" dados. Just use that shop made dado jig many of us have been meaning to get to . If like me you still haven't improved on the current state of a dado jig, a piece of scrap with a fence screwed on can be clamped, used as a guide, moved, clamped, etc. I know you have Carol's book. She must cover this in there, yes? The Colt is a perfect little tool for small dados. Fear not. You are invincible. Full speed ahead .

I did cover that, but I used a track guided jig for the router. Can't wander off with that. OK Rob, bottom line. Rout both pieces at the same time with them clamped edge to edge as Don suggested. As for measurements, use a center measurement. Can't get on the wrong side of a center line. Read my book on that issue. And next time, do as Glenn suggests. Make the drawer fit the hole, by creating the hole first.

You've already received great advice Rob.

Here: http://www.woodsmithshop.com/download/204/adjustabledadojig.pdf
There is a free online plan for one of those Dado Jigs that Glenn has been meaning to build. I built this one and it works great.

Re: Need some coaching and guidance

Thanks all for the valuable advice appreciate it very much. Will get the book out Carol. Why i did not think of that duh i dunno sometimes i just wonder. Its like having the righ tool and forgetting you own it.

@Glenn yeah i made one of those clamp adjustable jigs.
Then as memory would have it, i got it in my mind to believe (duh) that i had it set for the 3.5hp Milwaukee. Milwaukee dont supply 1/4 collet with the router like Porter Cable do so that set me off on a tangent i could have done without. Time i wasted could have been used to make a jig for my colt.
So that stopped me in my tracks, have since located the local Milwaukee service center and its not far from me. They happen to be the only people with Stock in Canada.
But then this morning i fly out of bed 5: 50am rush to basement and come to realise my jig is not even set to use the Milwaukee. Its set for my Porter Cable and i have Two 1/4" collets for those.
Trouble here is the comedy gets even worse or better depending on if you laughing or crying by now or both.
The jig i made uses the edge of the router base as a guide thats fine for the specific bit size that cut the initial slot/guide edge. Not fine if that bit was 1/2" and the slot one wants now is 1/4" Then i remember this jig was to be able to cut dados to match ply thickness. Not cut any size dados to a line. Duh again.

So deep breath i think i will make another guide specifically for my Colt or better yet a trip to LV will restore sanity. :thumbup:
@Carol i have been wanting a clamp on track and guide for all sorts for some time and i think time has come to open the wallet. and spring for one.


As to draws to fit hole etc, this whole shelf arrangement is very temp. Cool idea on the hmw tape Glenn will give it a whirl. Whole unit totally intended to be disposable hence the use of really crappy ply for the draws and glue everywhere. No fronts Glenn.These are gonna get a hole for pulling in and out
To be really honest i had hoped Ikea would have had something like these draws to purchase. But anything to make use of the ibox jig.
My son got the better unit. this one aint even gonna get a touch of finish. Lets say its the protoype at least thats my excuse. Lol i just need it NOW to get my desk organized for work.
But any chance to practice and learn i use and that is the reason for my asking.
One thing for sure I enjoy my woodworking nowadays and thats the most important thing. Wish the memory was better. Rapidly coming to realise organization and marking items with notes that meansomething is key. Having a dedicated place for everything will help but i am not able to be there yet. Resolution on that concept is still too course like ...router is in garage....not draw or shelf etc xyz.

Got great neighbors and even though i dont have space or shop setup nor have proper power, getting to do something and make some dust is great.
Of course i have a great wife that supports me that helps beyond anything else.

Btw in case u wondering i want these little draws handy at my desk to store all the bits an pieces that go with tech stuff these days. Memory sticks, various hook up cables etc. Shelves will hold scanner and label printer server and portable dvd reader and a long power bar at the rear to hook up all those pesky transformers for a the devices. Also power supply and some other techie things. Cant dabble in arduino and pi without space.
Fundamentally i want my desk surface back and NOW. Lol.


sent from s4

Rob Keeble said:

@Carol i have been wanting a clamp on track and guide for all sorts for some time and i think time has come to open the wallet. and spring for one.

Click to expand...

One word.....Festool

first off as Don stated lay your top and bottom next to each other and rout at the same time using a straightedge clamped to the offset of your router. what ever router you use your measurement will be to that router and in many cases will only apply to one side of that router as the bases and the bit are never truly centered off each other.. So carefully measure from one edge to either the outside edge of the cutter or to the center of the cutter and set your fence accordingly.
Second, as far as layout is concerned, you have it all set in your picture above. sometimes math is overrated and just setting each where it is supposed to go and carefully marking the locations is quicker and just as accurate. the key is to have a super sharp pencil or marking knife. never use a dull pencil as the line is too fat and can throw your cuts off by as much as 1/16".

Update

Well i purchased one of these low profile clamp guides.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=65694&cat=1,240,45313,65694

While i was at it i got the router plate for it. http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping/AddViews.aspx?p=65696

And luckily or not for me I decided to also get the wide jaws shown in the first link.

I got all my dados routed and all but one went according to plan. Clamped the two boards together, then used the actual draw and divider to set up the edge from which i set the router to cut.


Now i had not come back here and checked on what Rich said and wish i had. But there is more.

1) Somehow and i think i have an inkling as to how i did this, i cut the shelves off square. Only slightly but given their length and width it did not take much to have the slots i cut end up skew.

No problem I salvaged that by flipping the shelf that was to be the top so it worked out. (not my best work sadly).

2) The second issue i had was not having the edge clamp `square to the non square boards on one cut. I dunno this is what happens to me. I get so excited when i see the makings of a solution i get going and forget the basics. But some of us learn the hard way and i seem to be one of those guys.

So here is some tips in hindsight so someone else maybe learns a lesson from my mistakes.

I bought the wider jaws. Cool. Then i figured in order to ensure i clamp on the edge over the widest possible area to ensure that the clamp is square with the edge I added wood extenders. You have to do this, the wider jaws are really not a solution in this case on their own the specifically got the holes for the wood to be screwed to the jaw.
There is a even bigger reason you need to do this and that is because of the good old marketing trick Carol has mentioned and mentioned again at Burning Woods in Reno and i will never forget but there are times you can do nothing about it, and that is the universally adjustable tool. The router base attachment for this clamp is littered with holes to make it fit any and every router. Sadly to the extent that i think its a piece of crap. Forget being able to put a router on there and remove it and put it back again and expect it to be in the same place. Slots do not make for set alignment. That was not a big deal for me this time around but if one is expecting to remove and replace your router at some stage and then rely on the edge mark you cut in the extended jaws for an indication of where the bit is going to start its cut then you mistaken. Oh i did not mention that the purpose i used the jaws for was to do exactly this cut a slot to indicate to me where my edge of cut was going to appear when the router was fitted to the base and the base was in the edge clamp ready to roll.

Now had i properly implemented my own stated plan here, that is fitted and extra wooden edge to extend the extended jaws, I might have gotten away with my sloppy setup. But in my haste i only added a piece of wood to my one edge the one that i started the cut from. Not the far side.

To make matters worse i only measured from one point in the middle of a single draw placed on one side next to the divider that was being used to set the distance each time. Yeah its a comedy of errors starting at making the draws first. (But they were fun to make lol)

So all was `half fine`until slot 5 when i cut the slot without realizing that the clamp had not squared itself on the top edge like it had `luckily`done up to then. Well i somehow realized this before cutting the next slot and rescued the situation by re-cutting it but you know what that means on the front edge.

Had i measured at two points or rather had i made this set of draws and pair of shelves in the proper order and properly measured when cutting these dados at two points on square cut shelves things would have been very different.

Well the shelves are done and assembled and in use like i wanted they serve their purpose in a make shift manner, but they not what i know i could do if i had taken more time and paid attention to detail I know better about.

I think the only slight get out of jail clause i can use here is the one Allen mentioned about the difference between being a weekend warrior and retired and being able to stay with a project if you desire until its complete.

I am normally a very driven kind of character, that dont fit with measure twice cut once woodworking, when you put timescales to doing something and bulldoze your way to the end to meet the objective.

Sure i took the hill so to speak and its done and being used, but at what cost.

I had hoped to do a way better job of my shelves than i did for the ones i made for my son. Now mine are essentially construction grade. I gave up on putting the edge trim wood on them because i was not going to waste good cherry then i was going to edge band them with that iron on stuff which i have a couple of rolls of but decided even that was a waste of material.


So many lessons learnt thing is i knew the things i did wrong. Fundamentally have to take the pedal off the metal. The trick i think is to do projects on weekend etc that are not needed in any kind of time frame.


Now a few comments on this edge clamp. If you buy one, dont buy the router guide. Rather buy an old copy of Carols book and learn to make your own bases out of acrylic. While i was out the other day i stopped into a plastics store and bought some offcuts that are good for this purpose and some specific glue and applicators for acrylic and i plan on making my own for my different routers. Carol mentions a trick in her book using dowel pins that Lee Valley sells which enable you to get markings pretty precise for the bases.

Second do buy the extended jaws but add a piece of wood both sides and while you at it make extras to be able to change them up when you use a different router bit combo.

Lastly during this project I made one of these jigs, (this is not the only record of it here,
Art posted a link to an old Woodsmith plans file ADJUSTABLE DADO JIG - Woodsmith Shop for making it too,

http://familywoodworking.org/forums...os-to-take-care-of-variable-plywood-thickness

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?31068-Auto-Adjust-Router-Dado-Jig-Glenn-Bradley

There is one downfall of this jig that i did not realize and want to highlight so others are aware. When you set it up consider just what dados you are likely to cut with it and which thickness of ply you expect to end up using.

Reason being if you set it up with say a 0.5 inch bit then you are stuck with it cutting 0.5 inch and up in dado width. If you set it up with a 0.25 inch bit you will be able to do many widths of dado and accommodate all sorts of width ply down to 0.25inch but you are going to have to do one heck of a lot more passes and cutting. So you might want to think about making two while you at it if you decide to make one and then set one up for the current work and keep the other for the next time and decide then what to use as a bit size.

Lastly if you dont have an edge clamp and are in the market for one, be patient and pounce when Lee Valley has a special. Literally two days after i purchased my single 36`clamp, they announced a 3 clamp bundle deal unfortunately they had to withdraw their offer due to manufacturing issues, but my guess is that is only temporary. The clamp clamps well i have no issue with it, just the operator who i can assure you has been more than adequately beaten.

Sorry no pictures of this mess. I do however now have a desk i can work at again without clutter so Glenn yeah i am listening and getting organized bit by bit.

Life goes on.

If Im making matching dados on walls or shelves to hold dividers or shelves, I usually leave the walls unripped. If they are 12 inch wide walls, I leave it 25 inches lets say, a drop of kerf room and wiggle room.
I then use a track and router, unless its small enough, I use the dado set on TS.
Once I have the dados cut, I rip the wood to the correct width for the walls(and or shelves as in your case if youre putting in dividers)
They are perfectly matched up.

Rob just a note when using a guide like this I mark both ends and after clamping it before cutting I check the alignment with a square before I cut. Sometime measurements can be off.

To think you could have done all this with the shelves & some cardboard fold up parts trays, leaving plenty of time to plan, plan, plan & do it right the first time.