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a bit of help please

A

allen levine

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new york city burbs
It was asked if I could duplicate this wine rack for someone.011.jpg
They didn't bother looking at the price of it since it was in a very expensive wine/cigar store in the middle of a very expensive casino, but figured if its made of wood, I can make it.
My questions:
I have some soft maple on hand, and its going to be painted, not stained.
Should I use soft maple to make it, or should I use pine since it will be painted.

next question, since Ive never painted anything Ive built, do I prime maple or pine the same way?
I intend to paint most of the black by hand, with a glossy finish paint, and then probably paint the white parts the same way.
All by hand since Im not set up for spraying paints, and I don't want to rip my hair out trying since this is a relatively small project to paint.
does anyone have a suggestion on which type of paint to use on pine or maple(must be glossy finish)?
 
I'd go with the maple. Closer, tighter grain will give you a smoother painted surface and it will not be as susceptible to dents an dings - not impervious, just less susceptible. The alternating hard and soft (early/late) grain in most pines makes it nearly impossible to get a flat surface that will not telegraph through the paint. Especially gloss!

Yes, prime. I like to sand to 220, prime, then hand sand the primer with 220 or even 320 to smooth it out and get it ready for the finish coat.
 
the only thing can add to rennies advice is to make it as easy as possible to get it painted inside allen pre paint if you can then attach sides gettin into the small crevices with a brush is a pain, a decent airles sprayer on this would be a great friend..
 
Definitely not pine for the reasons mentioned above. Also, depending on your market, you may find clear pine to be more expensive than maple. Is here. Might also consider poplar. Great wood for painting!
 
thanx for waking up my brain carol.
I have a little bit of poplar around, and I can get it 3 minutes away at the home depot. Its such a small project costs will be very small, no need to run over the bridge for a few board feet of poplar.

Im going to run over to home depot tomorrow, maybe get a few bf of poplar, but need to get some mdf to make a template or two, wanna see how thin a sheet I can get for the back(hoping for 1/16th luan), and probably one of those 2x2 pieces of 1/2 inch birch for the shelves.
 
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Proper wine cellars are NOT painted, stained, oiled, or anything. They should be bare wood, so there is no possible transfer of the paint solvents to the wine. I used to subcontract work for Grandeur Cellars who built wine cellars, and NONE were painted (until they grew their own skills in-house). The most common wood I remember was sipo, but I am sure there were others.

See my columns and doors at www.plesums.com/wood/other/winecellar.html
or the Grandeur Cellars site at http://www.grandeurcellars.com/

If you are going to condition the storage (you should - 48-52 degrees is common) use a double glass door and an air seal around the edge, so moisture doesn't condense on the door.
 
While many wine cellars are made with exotic, bare wood, don't assume that's the way you have to go. A quick search online will show you otherwise.

Think about it: If the wine is in a glass bottle, properly sealed and kept at the proper temperature, how is the finish going to affect the product?
 
Charlie-this is a den/bar wine rack. I don't think anyone is worried about humidity or temps, its just going to hold a few bottles of wine, I doubt anything worth real money.
Ted-what graphics? the picture is the rack inside the stores window.
 
Another vote for poplar. Semi-hard, sands smooth, holds & shows paint well, inexpensive.

Might consider:

  • Primer - insures paint will stick well & the white primer shows the paint color better.
  • Gloss enamel paint.
  • If concerned about end grain, I know you previously recommended glue size. However, I've recently tried Bondo & sand to 400 grit for a super fine surface. Short work time & sands easily. Works very well!
  • If using an aerosol paint spray in a cool area, try heating the can of paint in a pot of warm tap water ~ 15-30 minutes before painting. Seems to make it spray better resulting in a better finish.
 
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Bill Arnold said:
...
Think about it: If the wine is in a glass bottle, properly sealed and kept at the proper temperature, how is the finish going to affect the product?
Click to expand...

I made that very argument countless times while I was working with Grandeur Cellars, and was consistently voted down (as if I had a vote - was told I was wrong would be a better expression, and they are a very successful company). When I finally outgrew the cheap jug wine and advanced to an adult wine cooler, I noticed that the shelves in what I would have otherwise called a refrigerator were unfinished wood.
 
Charlie Plesums said:
I made that very argument countless times while I was working with Grandeur Cellars, and was consistently voted down (as if I had a vote - was told I was wrong would be a better expression, and they are a very successful company). When I finally outgrew the cheap jug wine and advanced to an adult wine cooler, I noticed that the shelves in what I would have otherwise called a refrigerator were unfinished wood.
Click to expand...

I think many preferences such as this are a matter of tradition, rather than science. Racks at a winery are going to get a lot of use, so any finish would get banged around anyway. Another factor to consider is the money involved in good wines. The cost of exotic woods that require no finish is not a factor. If one were able to pin down the Grandeur folks for an explanation of the science of painted or stained racks, it probably has more to do with the human nose while in the cellar than a direct effect on the product in the bottle.

As to an 'adult wine cooler' having unfinished wood, what type of finish would one put in such an environment? I would think the only thing appropriate would be true tung oil or similar.
 
Bill Arnold said:
....
As to an 'adult wine cooler' having unfinished wood, what type of finish would one put in such an environment? I would think the only thing appropriate would be true tung oil or similar.
Click to expand...

My son's earlier version of the same cooler has powder coated metal racks, mine has the "improved" plain wooden shelves.

Sipo runs a little over $4/board foot, so isn't that much more than maple, especially since it is about 99% clear and straight (no waste). We used a lot of sipo when I was building things for Grandeur Cellars.

I suspect you are like me... looking for an engineering answer. I finally gave up when it comes to wine racks, wine cellars. Some expert decided that plain wood was best, and that is what everyone wants, so I salute smartly and accept payment.
 
Charlie Plesums said:
I suspect you are like me... looking for an engineering answer. I finally gave up when it comes to wine racks, wine cellars. Some expert decided that plain wood was best, and that is what everyone wants, so I salute smartly and accept payment.
Click to expand...

The perception tolerances on a lot of chemicals are surpisingly small and if you are storing wine for long periods (years or even decades in some cases) even very small transfers of flavor/odor can have a measurable impact. Clearly not all finishes will have this problem but a cellar manager is going to be naturally conservative if dealing with high value wines. I think this is likely the major reason and it would only take a couple of bad mistakes for the industry to become really anti-finish. If you wrecked a million dollars in wine because someone used a high VOC finish.. well.. yeah.. career over. On the other hand I don't really see something like straight shellac having a problem and I'm sure there are other finishes that would be fine as well, but I can understand the cellar managers conservatism. This is basically the same reason "you don't finish the inside of drawers" (although we all know with correct finish choices you can).

Finished (and especially painted) woods can hide "problems" until they have gone further than you'd want. For instance I would be upset and looking to do something about it if I had a mold contamination problem in my wine storage area (which isn't the biggest I've seen but also sure ain't the smallest :D). If my shelving was painted I could have a lot of mold hiding under the pain and sporulating and infecting my bottles. With unfinished shelves I can glance around and see that its all copacetic pretty quickly. This is somewhat important because a well managed cellar is a relatively high humidity area (which also somewhat drives the wood selection) which leads to there being a higher risk of this happening.

For a small not extremely well sealed storage where the wine is unlikely to be left for long periods like we're talking about here I don't really see either of these issues being a real problem. I would probably pick a paint/finish for the inside that has a relatively short curing time/low vocs and wouldn't worry about it past that.
 
Charlie Plesums said:
... I suspect you are like me... looking for an engineering answer. I finally gave up when it comes to wine racks, wine cellars. Some expert decided that plain wood was best, and that is what everyone wants, so I salute smartly and accept payment.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head there, Charlie! Nothing wrong with tradition and, if that's the answer, then so be it.

Now, here's one for ya: Teak is a quality, high-end wood that is used in all types of cabinetry and other construction. Folks with deep pockets like teak. Heck, I like teak and managed to rescue a small amount from the trash bin at a commercial shop. Teak might seem like a logical choice for a wine rack. I don't have the most sensitive nose in many ways, but I can smell teak. I sense a stronger odor(however slight) from unfinished teak than from most woods that have a finish on them. I don't know what any of that means - just rambling.....
 
this is a great thread!
That said, I have to agree with Charlie and others on here regarding a finish on the shelves where the wine will be stored, in some cases long term.
But that said, I would definitely tend towards non oily non aromatic woods for the same reason as not finishing them. Bill, Teak is a very pretty wood, but, as you mentioned it has an odor, even more relevant is the oil. If that somehow comes in contact with the cork over long term it can soak into the wine as well.
The shelves Allen is looking at building, imo, would be more for a decoration in a room to hold a few bottles of wine that will be consumed in a short period. That being the case its probably not as big of a concern for contamination as it would be if he were building a cellar.
 
i think rich pretty much summed it up this rack is for the party tonight kind of thing or maybe the end of the week. but not a wine cellar affair:) over here a 5 gallon pail works just fine and then we bottle whats left:)
 
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