Tenon vs. Loose Tenon

Sean Wright

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WNY, Buffalo Area
I have never used loose tenon joinery before.

Is there any advantage to loose tenon joinery over traditional tenons? I know with the new Domino tool, loose tenons seem to be becoming more popular.


I hope this doesn't start an arguement :dunno:
 
I have never used loose tenon joinery before.

Is there any advantage to loose tenon joinery over traditional tenons? I know with the new Domino tool, loose tenons seem to be becoming more popular.


I hope this doesn't start an arguement :dunno:

Hey Sean,
Here's my two cents.... Loose tenons are not quite as strong as integral tenons, but still very strong, and adequate for most furniture projects. The great thing about loose tenons is that once you get your machinery set up, you can easily run enough tenon stock for many, many projects. Then all you have to do is route the mortises and cut off the amount of stock you need. With an integral tenon, you are creating each tenon individually - I usually make them a little large and 'sneak up' on a tight fit. And that's a lot more work. I use both methods.

I guess one thing that bugs me a little is that all the work that went into fitting the integral tenon is never (if you did it right) visible once the project is glued up. So, in my opinion, in most cases an integral tenon doesn't add any perceived value, unlike say handcut dovetails the customer will see and appreciate.

And if you started an argument, thats fine. We enjoy a heated discussion about wood, just leave the politics out of it.:thumb:
 
I use both. I made a slot mortiser out of an old PC router table some ball bearing drawer slides and a press screw. It works great. I do prefer to say floating tenon as loose sounds more like an ill fitting joint to me. My homemade slot mortiser has stops built in so I can batch cut my repetitive work quickly and every piece matches. I cannot do that on my hollow chisel mortiser. I don’t think there is going to be much difference in strength if fitted properly because one side is going to be a long grain to long grain joint. With the integral tenon if you make the shoulder cut too deep you have weakened the joint anyway. So proper fit and sizing is the key to strength in both joints. The other speed advantage is no cleaning up shoulders or cheeks, and you cut pieces to there final length no forgetting to leave extra for the tenon. All that being said I do like to use through mortises when I can and I cut an integral tenon when I do that. It is difficult to make mortises in large pieces on my slot mortiser, I have done it but it is awkward. I don’t have the Domino or the money for one but that is an advantage that system may have. I just use a plunge router and a guide fence, if the piece is too big for the mortiser. That my $.02 and I am in no way trying to argue with anyone. I will now go back to keeping quiet.
Joe
 
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I made a slot mortiser out of an old PC router table some ball bearing drawer slides and a press screw. It works great.Joe
Joe - I've been wanting to build a slot mortiser - would you post some pictures of yours? I can easily build an x-y table but have not figured out a good, solid way to raise and lower the table or the router (the z axis).

But to the question asked, I've used both regular mortise and tenon and loose tenons. Both work fine and are quite strong enough to do the job. A friend who builds entry doors for a living only uses loose tenons and claims he's never had a problem from the loose tenons.

Mike
 
I forgot to add another benifit of the floating tennon is that I can add them to a coped rail and style joint pretty easily if extra strength is needed. I saw Frank Klausz do this with a tradional tennon but he is an exception.

Mike,
I don't have any pics yet but will try to pm you some later. I don't want to hyjak the thread. BTW the press screw in combination with the router table fence hardware (modified) gives me the Z axis adjustment.
 
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Mike,
I don't have any pics yet but will try to pm you some later. I don't want to hyjak the thread. BTW the press screw in combination with the router table fence hardware (modified) gives me the Z axis adjustment.

Seems to me that a new thread might be in order so that others of us could benefit from it if you do not mind.
 
Joe & Hubert,

Thanks for the links to your multi routers. Those are incredable! :thumb: :thumb:

When I can, I try to catch "Woodworks" with David Marks on the DIY channel. He has a multi router. It was the first one that I ever saw. After seeing that, I though.... I 've gotta see how much one of those costs! Much to my dismay it was in the $2000 to $3000 range. I pretty much gave up on the idea at that point. :(

Now seeing what you guys built, I have new hopes to have a multi router in my shop some day!
 
Several tests over the years have proven floating tenons to be every bit as strong as an integral ones. I use them whenever possible because they are faster and more repeatable with alot less fuss after the fact using a shoulder plane or the like to get the fit just right. Also alot less measuring and marking, and you don't need to be perfectly centered, let's say, since both mating pieces are referenced off the same set up. When it comes to stock, though, I used to make a bunch, thinking I would just cut it as needed, but found with humidity and temp changes, stock size would grow or shrink, bit size is constant by comparison. Now I make stock as needed and find it just as quick. A fast resaw on the bandsaw, a couple of round over passes, ready to go...
 
Allen, Allen, Allen

Who are you talking about? Certainly not me? I don't recall any arm twisting and it seems that you were the one lugging armload's of stuff out to the car with a big grin on your face! :D

Seriously though, I wonder what a time vs money analysis would yield when comparing building a "multi router" clone or going with the D machine and actually getting some projects built!

Remember, no F words here, we ARE a Family site! :rofl: :rofl:

Jay
 
At the risk of starting a huge argument, and very likely a new thread... I played with the Domino for apporximate 30 minutes before the opening of a show (I believe it was Phoenix) and knew I didn't want one. Two main reasons, and paramount amoung them -- ergonomics. For the same reason I don't like using my very nice biscuit joiner. For anything more than two holes in a row the position kinks my neck badly. I couldn't imagine doing a whole project, especially when compared to my horizontal mortiser. Second reason, I would have to do double tenons in projects where I would normally want a 12mm (1/2") tenon or larger, or deeper tenons for that matter, which I do alot. And third (I know I said only two), I never like being stuck having to buy proprietary pieces, like their tenon stock (but I could make my own like I do now.) This is the reason I'm not as crazy about my Festool Drill/driver as I could be... Gotta get the bits from them unless you use the standard drill chuck and your own quick change system, which defeats the purpose of the Centrex benefits. Though, I would consider their bits if they just made sqaure drives. Got a bit off topic there, didn't I..
 
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Sam

Thanks for your observations it is good to hear stuff from a pro!

I have been amazed at the publicity roll out of this tool, it seems everywhere you go there is something about it.

But if you didn't have a horizontal mortiser..............

Jay

And I don't know if this is "really" off topic, it is one way to create a loose tenon.
 
...
But if you didn't have a horizontal mortiser..............

Drill press with a brad point or forstner bit would be a cheap way to go. Some size limitations and a bit more time consuming, but for one project at a time it will do.

A router with a simple shop made jig lends more versatility and speed than the drill press for less than 60 bucks, bit included. Of course, this assumes you already have a decent router. Would work for most everything except maybe edge joining for panels (though it could still work with a simple pin system on your jig,) but an easy and fast tongue and groove on the router table would prove more effective here rather than 10 or so individual tenons per row. And you still wouldn't need to be perfectly centered because your mating pieces would register off the same place on your jig.

I really don't mean to downplay the domino or its effectiveness (it seems like it will perform its stated tasks well,) just the hype + the cost vs. what you are really getting. I imagine there will be some postpartum depression out there once the "gizmo affect" wears off after the initial "Wow" of that first perfect fit. Just kind of a let down once you realize it is just a mortise and a tenon, something so basic to woodworking and so easy to produce without a lot of skill required. And if that is so, how many will admit it?

For a couple of years I was afraid to admit that I wasn't that crazy about my Rotex sander. I mean I had spent all that dough and kept trying to justify that the decision was a good one because... well, I spent all that money. But over the last couple of years I have talked to quite a few other woodworkers and a boatbuilder who were equally unenthusiastic about that particular tool, and I know it is not just me, or something I was missing. If anybody wants my Rotex, please feel free to make me a reasonable offer.
:dunno:
 
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