Hmmm...

Messages
68
Location
Baltimore, Mary land
Ok, so at work everyone thinks I'm crazy (and they would be correct) because I spend all my spare money on tools. I also buy tons of books, magazines.. etc.. Its a passion of mine I guess, and now I have decided I need to learn one of the most important lessens in woodworking (IMHO) and that is patience.

My wife was going to buy me the Craftsman machine that will carve out boxes to what ever you put in the cad program and upload to it for Christmas last year, but I told her no.

Now, you may be asking why I did that. This sucker is 1800.00. Its a power tool.. I really need that.. BUT - I have decided that I want to do what it does with my hands. If it should be carved, then I will carve it. She didn't understand and I am not sure I'm explaining it correctly, but its just how I feel.

The thing is I have never cut a dovetail by hand or by router, even though I have the jig to do it. Because I want to do it, not some machine. But I am getting closer. I have added a new top to my bench with a vice. I have purchased my hand saw to use and I am currently reading anything I can find on the subject.

I can build a cabinet, book cases.. etc... But they are put together with pocket screws or Bisquick, er... biscuits. :rolleyes: But I have discovered that my patience runs very thin when doing glue ups... or for that matter a lot of shop related tasks... I know a lot of the problem lies in keeping the shop in order and that is something that my shop doesn't have. I have decided that every time I go into the shop something must be put in its place and if it doesn't have a place, then I must find one for it.

I guess the main reason for this message is to ask you - What sparked your interest in woodworking? Do you ever achieve patience? Should I concentrate on one aspect of it, or try to do them all (cabinets, turning, finishing, etc..). If you are stuck in a house and zombies :eek: are trying to break in, do you prefer to use nails or screws to board up the doors and windows? :huh:

:dunno:
 
George, interesting topic. :thumb:

Let me jump in here.

I've seen some of the best, most amazing work come out of the the most incredible clutter that could be called a workshop, and I've seen some of the worst excuses for woodworking come out of workshops that could be used for open heart surgery, and I'm not talking about anyone on this board or any other board, I'm talking about PRE-internet times.:rolleyes:

How old are you?

I found that when I was younger, I wanted to get it done NOW, not tomorrow, or heaven forbid NEXT week, but RIGHT NOW!!!

I've learned to slow down and do it right. I had one old timer I worked with a LONG time ago tell us young punks that when you can smell the finish coming for a project, you should put your tools away for the day, and clean up your shop, and get ready for the finish, as a good finish can make or break a lot of hours of work on a project.

This has been a VERY hard lesson for me to learn, but I think I'm getting it now.

I'll be 43 in a month or so here, and I'm starting to figure that out, a place for everything and everything in it's place really does wonders for my woodworking, as I spend a lot less time looking for stuff. I an tell you where all FIVE of my tape measures are, at this moment :eek:

I find that as I work on something, I will stop every hour or so, and put stuff away that I am not using at the moment, this helps with the clutter on my bench. Oddly enough, another thing is taking pics, I clean up a bit :eek: before I take pics, and if you know me, I take a LOT of pics, so little by little the shop stays clean.

BTW, the most incredible, fantastic work I've ever in my life seen done anywhere was by a guy who's workshop was tidy, and everything was in it's place, but, it was a work shop, not a surgical theater, so there was some dust around etc, but it was neat.

I worked at a place, early on, where the boss made us run the broom around the workshop ten minutes before lunch and 10 minutes before quiting time EVERYDAY, and I guess that stuck, takes me only 5 minutes in the Dungeon, but that 5 minutes gives me satisfaction in that the floor is at least tidy when I leave, and each time I come back.

Well, maybe more than you wanted to know :rolleyes: :wave:

Cheers!
 
...
I guess the main reason for this message is to ask you - What sparked your interest in woodworking? Do you ever achieve patience? Should I concentrate on one aspect of it, or try to do them all (cabinets, turning, finishing, etc..). If you are stuck in a house and zombies :eek: are trying to break in, do you prefer to use nails or screws to board up the doors and windows? :huh:

:dunno:
Great topic, George...

1. My initial interest in woodworking stemmed from a couple little projects in my granddad's workshop at around 6 or 7 years of age. This interest was sparked back up with high school woodshop. I did a little bit of woodworking after high school (with my granddad's tools, after I inherited them), but then didn't do more than typical homeowner fix-up work until a couple of years ago. That was when I decided to start taking over the garage and building up tools again. (By then, I'd left behind Granddad's old table saw and band saw, but they've been replaced with better tools now.)

2. I'm getting better at patience, and it's coinciding with my skill level improving so I can still get projects done in less time. Something I've learned in the software development business, which applies directly to woodworking, it that it's better to spend the time now doing it right, than to spend the time later doing it over. And good craftsmanship applies to any project, simple or complex.

3. Should you concentrate on one aspect or or many? That really depends on you...whatever feels best. As I've gotten back into woodworking, I've tended to go through phases where each phase was spent building mostly one type of thing (cutting boards, boxes, pens, bowls, hollow forms), but for me I see it as building up skills in a gradual manner. These skills tend to cross over from one discipline to the next. The techniques I learned finishing boxes can be applied to hollow forms today, and furniture tomorrow. Also, even if you're working on basic stuff like cutting boards or boxes, you can really stretch your creative limits if you want to. So if you find you have a real liking for one aspect over others, you can stay on that track and concentrate on expanding your skills there.

4. For zombies, I prefer nails, but in a pinch, a 12 gauge. :D
 
Patience is hereditary my friend...you get it from your children!! That is a running joke I know, but true. In my case I found out that children, patience and woodworking collided pretty hard. Let me explain...

Now I was an accomplished woodworker but I could not cut a dovetail to save myself. I was like you, I refused to get a dovetail jig because I wanted to cut them by hand. Now my first wife and I could not have children. It took me 11 years, a divorce, another marriage before things fell into place.

As a 3rd generation railroader, I had this design in my head for a Cradle/ Toybox that I wanted to make for my first child. Naturally it had to use hand cut dovetails and mortise and tennon joints. When I found out Alyson Rose Johnson was on the way I went to work to learn how to cut dovetails by hand.

Somewhere along the way I learned that I would rather do something by hand, chisel or handplane that takes three hours then something by machine that takes 20 minutes. At the same time I found a new appreciation for woodworking. I probably won't give up my jointer/ planer or RAS anytime soon, but I do a lot of fine tuning with hand tools and I just love it.

For what it is worth, my greatest woodworking highlight had to be that cradle. There are better designs and there are better cradles, but I learned a lot and put a lot into it. It was for a special girl and came out special.

I'll tease you with a picture, but the link will explain it a lot better and has more pictures. Train Cradle


Train_Cradle-217x140.jpg
 
I guess the main reason for this message is to ask you - What sparked your interest in woodworking?

Dunno?? My dad did some but not much. He could have been very good if he had wanted too. Maybe my parents love of antiques and refinishing them? As a kid I went to lot of auctions and watched (and helped a little) them refinish a lot of furniture.

Do you ever achieve patience?

Yes! But you know how you develop patients? By being in situations that try your patience. :doh: And I am serious.

I have more patience with wood than anything. Sometimes it's not a lot and I am not a patient person. But I find wood working very relaxing and I have more patience with it than anything. Well maybe that and rebuilding these old machines.

Should I concentrate on one aspect of it, or try to do them all (cabinets, turning, finishing, etc..).

If you have to ask.......... :)

Concentrate on one thing. Get good at it and then start learning another. Practice, practice, practice. No reason you can't be good at all of them. But what works for me is finding one I enjoy and getting good at it. Say building. Then the next step is I have to finish it. So I work on my finishing skills. Before long I am decent at it. You may find you are never good at _______. If you just can't get the hang of something why beat your head against a wall? Do what you like and are good at.

YMMV of course. But the advice is free. ;)

If you are stuck in a house and zombies :eek: are trying to break in, do you prefer to use nails or screws to board up the doors and windows?

Screws, strong hold. :thumb:

Jeff
 
Zombies, oh my...

I am 37 going on 38 years old. I have no children of my own, but do have three step kids and nine grand kids... (your saying WHAT? - Its a long story..) anyway I do find that I do have patience on somethings... When I am doing trim work in a home owners house I will spend as much time is needed to get the fit just right, with out much agony. I love the work I do (remodeling) and that helps.

I know when I posted pictures of the shop the other day, my wife said I needed to clean it up a bit before I took the pictures, but there again, no patience... She says its the Instant Gratification bug. Since I have OCD, I tend to go through phases and being in a hurry is one of them...

I'm learning though. I'm starting to slow down. I think a part of my problem was working all the time. I have slowed that down as well... 8 Hrs a day only, no more side work during the week and then only on Saturdays. I'm now creating time to be in the shop...

I think its great to be able to talk to other wood workers and to see pictures of their work. You really get to see the passion, creativity and pleasure that they put into their work. A completed project is an inspiration and the story behind them are truly meaningful. Its so easy (for me) to get discouraged and not want to complete a project, but reading the forums gives me an extra boost to get back at it. (No really, it does).

I have to say thank you to everyone here for all their help. I have learned so much in such a short time.

As for Zombies, well I just finished watching Night of the Living Dead and the thought was there, so I asked.. :rofl: hehe... Sometimes I can get a bit weird. Writing is another passion, even though my grammar and spelling is horrible.
For the brave you can go here to read some writings, though the subject matter may be somewhat disturbing :eek: (I write about horror, gore, etc..)
http://blog.myspace.com/astriapo

The cradle looks wonderful!!!

:D :wave:
 
I re-started woodworking as a hobby after about a 30 year break. I was at a point where I needed something to occupy my time besides all the 'stuff' that usually occupies our time. I often spend much longer planning and setting up for a cut than making it. I keep reminding my self that I am doing this for the pleasure of doing it; not to create a large volume of pieces.

I'm good for one or two projects of (personal) value a year so far. The rest is shop prep and favors for folks with the occasional paying gig along the way. I'm enjoying it.
 
This is a great topic. In reading the initial thread, I had to chuckle a little bit. Not because of mocking, but because I could have written it.

I started woodworking very early in life. We all did. The first time we hit a 2x4 with a hammer. Over the course of my life (I'm 40) I decided that I wanted a hobby that kept me near home. My parents describe me as a monomaniac. I usually go head first into my new hobby, spend thousands, then lose interest.

With woodworking, I went head first in, spent thousands, and keep getting more and more interested.

I have found that shop time is therapeutic. I had a messy little shop with a bunch of bench setups that were unsatisfactory and basically I had a tough time getting anything done. I've done a few projects where I couldn't wait to get done them. That has always upset me. This is supposed to be fun. But a good shop cleanup, another storage solution in the shop, a few nights of not going into the shop, and I'm back in business.

About 2 years ago, I started keeping a list on a whiteboard on a wall outside the shop. It looks like this:

1. Put false fronts on drawers.
2. Make a new shooting board.
3. Clean up dust under router table.
4. Make a saw blade storage.
5. Solution for bench height.
6. Read up on the Festool demos.
7. Sharpen the 3/4" chisel.

That way, before I come into the shop, I see something that has to be done. I don't have to go in order. I am in the middle of a project, but I havn't worked on it in 5 days. I look at the list, pick one, do it, then fiddle fart around. At least I'm always getting something done, that contributes to the common goal of a psychologically healthy little shop. If I look at the list, don't want to do anything, I sometimes turn on my heel and go upstairs. Or I sometimes go in, turn on the TV and cut some dovetails or join some scrap with some method of joinery.

The thing I hate is, laying in bed saying, "Damn it! I was supposed to glue up that panel!" I have a list and can choose NOT to do anything on it, rather than get caught up in the clutter of my shop, the clutter of my mind, the clutter of life and forget to do things that were supposed to be fun.

Will you ever get more patient? Why would you want to be. You are who you are.

The next paragraph is just a joke, but I have 5 rules for my kids...mostly in jest...they are pretty good rules for me too.

1. No whining.
2. Get over it.
3. No kicking, biting, screaming, punching or breaking things on purpose.
4. Settle. (A count to ten thing for kids.)
5. Stop doing whatever it is that you are doing that is currently annoying your father.

Have a great weekend folks!
 
Hey George,
Don't you wish we could buy patience like any other tool? I took up woodworking in part to develop patience. At work I was a real 'get er done' type and ran around yelling at people all day to get off their butts and get their work in. I eventually noticed that the most productive people were those who took their time and kept in focus, so that they could do it right the first time.

I heard some where that the way to keep a shop orderly is to put away 5 things every time you come through the door. Maybe I'll try that.

And screws, definitely screws.:eek: :eek:
 
"What sparked your interest in woodworking?" LikeJeff, I don't know.

"Do you ever achieve patience?" No

"Should I concentrate on one aspect of it, or try to do them all (cabinets, turning, finishing, etc..)?" Do them all. It keeps an impatient person interested. Also never use hand tools; Always use power tools as it keeps an impatient person happy and it usually comes out better anyway.

"If you are stuck in a house and zombies are trying to break in, do you prefer to use nails or screws to board up the doors and windows?" Screws as I do not have a framing nailer but I do have a power screwdriver. Remember my code, always use power tools-never hand tools.
 
Last edited:
Ok, so at work everyone thinks I'm crazy (and they would be correct) because I spend all my spare money on tools. I also buy tons of books, magazines.. etc.. Its a passion of mine I guess, and now I have decided I need to learn one of the most important lessens in woodworking (IMHO) and that is patience.

I find myself being a tool collecter as well. Currently I am still in a mainly powertool phase. I think that down the road, as my skill level improves on the power tool end, I will begin on the hand tool "true woodworker" way of doing things.

My wife was going to buy me the Craftsman machine that will carve out boxes to what ever you put in the cad program and upload to it for Christmas last year, but I told her no.

I saw an info-mercial for that thing, and it was impressive! Unfortunatly I would have to be making a decent amount of money from my hoby to even consider that. Currently my hoby operates entirely as an expence. :doh:

The thing is I have never cut a dovetail by hand or by router, even though I have the jig to do it. Because I want to do it, not some machine. But I am getting closer. I have added a new top to my bench with a vice. I have purchased my hand saw to use and I am currently reading anything I can find on the subject.

I have yet to cut a dovetail, myself. It is on my list of things to learn, but I haven't needed to do it yet. I find that I generally learn to do something new, as it becomes needed. Maybe not the best way of doing things, but I have a limited amount of time to spend in the shop :(

While not dovetails, building a box joint jig for the table saw is on my soon to do list.

I can build a cabinet, book cases.. etc... But they are put together with pocket screws or Bisquick, er... biscuits. :rolleyes: But I have discovered that my patience runs very thin when doing glue ups... or for that matter a lot of shop related tasks... I know a lot of the problem lies in keeping the shop in order and that is something that my shop doesn't have. I have decided that every time I go into the shop something must be put in its place and if it doesn't have a place, then I must find one for it.

This might rub some the wrong way :doh: , but I feel that both biscuit & pocket hole joinery do have their place along with the more traditional methods of joinery. Very often the joinery is hidden, and is up to the woodworker (and their particular circumstances such as time constraints and tools) as to which to use. That being said, visable joinery (through mortice/tennon, dovetails, splines, box joints etc...) can add alot visually to a project for the causal observer. For those that understand what it takes to make that joinery, it means even more.

I guess the main reason for this message is to ask you - What sparked your interest in woodworking? Do you ever achieve patience? Should I concentrate on one aspect of it, or try to do them all (cabinets, turning, finishing, etc..).

-My interest in woodworking started from building small projects with my Dad as a child. I never took any classes (woodshop, was not an option at my HS). I learned some from my Dad, some from reading, some from watching Norm, and some from just jumping in and trying it. I'm 32 and I didn't begin a tool collection until I was in my late 20s. I didn't have a shop until about 4 years ago, when I decided that I wanted to get back to woodworking.

-As far as patience goes, I tend have more for somethings and less for others. I always try to learn from my mistakes, and I find that has helped me quite a bit. I think that having patience comes in especially there. Fortunatly, I tend to have more in the woodshop....but I guess I just lucky there.

-As far as what to concentrate on.... I mentioned above that I pick up new ways of doing things as I need them. Up to this point, I haven't needed to turn anything on a lathe, so I don't have one and I don't really know much about them. I guess that you can be jack of all trades (so to speak) but a master of none, if it suits your needs. I think this question is something that will have as many answers as there are those who work with wood. :dunno:

If you are stuck in a house and zombies :eek: are trying to break in, do you prefer to use nails or screws to board up the doors and windows?

I'd have to go with Screws, as they provide more mechanical strength than nails.
As a backup, I would have to second Vaughn's 12 gauge!
 
George,

I guess I'm a little different. I don't do this woodworking thing as a 'thing in itself', but rather as a means to an end. I know that's very un-zen-like of me, but I'm an american pragmatist, not an eastern buddhist. It's always been a case of "I can't afford to buy that thing I need, so I'll just make it." When I was gardening, and needed a structure, I'd get out the skilsaw and the drill and the hammer and go at it. When I was in school, and needed something to sit on, same thing, except I painted it white. I've never had enough money to pay someone to do my work for me, and I'm not sure I'd want to even if I did.

Anyway, this is not a hobby for me, it's just part of existence. When we needed changing tables for babies, I knocked something together. The kids need swing sets? time to buy some cheap lumber. "Darling, the deck needs a new rail." Of course, we couldn't afford the kind of house Doorlink wanted. So we had to get one that was a complete wreck, and rebuild it. it was all we could afford, after all. It had a one car garage, and needed a thousand things, new kitchen, new furniture, everything. Young James, the last of six boys, was born the month after we moved in. Doorlink works nights and weekends, I work days. Given all that, and the realities of childcare, patience is a luxury I can't afford. I need to get in the maximum amount of productivity in the very little time I can squeeze in during a day. I've been working on this house for 2 1/2 years, and I'm not halfway done. I need to get things done as fast as I can, and well enough that they don't need to get redone. In other words, everything's a project. The joy is not in the activity, but in the results: the joy and utility and ease it gives to members of the family. The activity itself is just work.

What's frustrating is that there's never a chance to get really good at any one thing. I've got to do carpentry and construction and finish carpentry and cabinet making and plumbing and wiring and... One day I'll be laying tile and the next I'll be making frames and the next I'll be fitting black pipe because doorlink wants a gas range on the island and there's no gas line to the kitchen. The good news about this is a belief that no matter what's next, I'll figure out a way to do it, because I've never had any idea what I was doing, but I've always been able to figure it out, between looking up stuff on the web and doolink saying "why don't you just..."

I think that, no matter what we say, most of us are in pretty much the same situation. I learned this when I was making some cabinet doors, and did something really stupid. I posted about it, and had people write back saying they'd done exactly the same stupid thing, for the same stupid reason. There's a great line about this in Eliot: "from wrong to wrong the exasperated spirit proceeds, unless restored by that refining fire, wherein you must move in measure, like a dancer." It's our mistakes that teach us to take our time, to move carefully, to do things in a measured, efficient way, so that our work, as eliot says, may fructify in the lives of others.

All this to explain why I think this is not a hobby, it's a workful skill approaching art that we do to meet the needs of those around us, and bring them joy. If I just wanted to have fun and kill time, I'd be lying on a beach in california, watching the waves roll in... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
George,


What's frustrating is that there's never a chance to get really good at any one thing. I've got to do carpentry and construction and finish carpentry and cabinet making and plumbing and wiring and... One day I'll be laying tile and the next I'll be making frames and the next I'll be fitting black pipe because doorlink wants a gas range on the island and there's no gas line to the kitchen. The good news about this is a belief that no matter what's next, I'll figure out a way to do it, because I've never had any idea what I was doing, but I've always been able to figure it out, between looking up stuff on the web and doolink saying "why don't you just..."

Bill

It may be frustrating to you but it is a great education in itself. Sounds like me over the past 45 years. Hardly a week goes by that some neighbor calls wanting to know how to do something. A big satisfaction in the end.
 
I'm something of a mix between a 'have to get something built for the family' and a craftsman for artistic sake. I found a lot of similarities between my woodworking projects and Bill Lantry's means to an end thread. I've built three beds (four technically, as one was a bunk bed) and they're still holding up the family after several years of (ab)use.

I first caught the bug when I was a teenager, noodling around in my cousin's shop. I had free reign of his cut-off's bin, a hammer, some finish nails, his 14" bandsaw and sanding station. I built stuff, little stuff for myself and my younger cousins to play with. I never took any shop classes in school, beyond one year in 8th grade or so. I always wanted a shop. as a teenager I wanted a shopsmith in the worst way, but of course could never afford one.

now i'm about to embark on building my first home shop, about on the scale of Marty's shed, but hey, it will keep the snow off of my tools!
 
Kind of a funny story about how I got into woodworking...

In 7th grade I took a woodshop class and darn near flunked out. I just could not seem to get how to use the tools, how to plane a board and all that. One board was so bad the shop teacher put it back in the tablesaw to get the board square again. It was bad. I decided right then and there metal was for me.

Of course now I am a Machinist and have been for a long time. I was just starting my machinist career though when I needed to build a house. I was 18 and getting married and did not have much money. The bank said no on a loan, but I had land, a sawmill and a woodlot. About halfway into the building of the house I realized I liked woodworking afterall. Soon after my Grandfather died and I ended up inheriting his tools. Now jump ahead 14 years...

I just talked to a contractor yesterday about adding on to my house. It's ironic because now that I am doing well career wise and stuff, I cannot take off from work for 6 months as I need my paycheck to pay the bills and they need me to build boats. At the same time I am going to have to pay a contractor to do what I can do myself-build my addition. Its a catch 22 but I need the room for my infant daughter now...

Funny how life works isn't it?
 
I got into woodworking through flyfishing...it's a long story. The condensed version goes something like this:

I got into flyfishing, figured I needed to tie my own flies. Once I got good at that, I wanted to shadowbox some. Had one made for me, cost an arm and a leg. Figured I could learn to frame my own. Got into framing flies.

Figured I might as well frame art too. Started with prints, but my sister in law is an artist. Figured I might as well learn to paint.

Started painting, needed to cut masonite panels to paint on, and needed a carrier to transport wet panels in the wild (painting landscapes on site). Got a table saw, cut some panels, made a carrier... hooked like a trout on a Pale Morning Dun.

About patience...it has everything to do with being comfortable in the present moment. If you are feeling impatient, you are living in the future, thinking of the finished product, or wishing you were doing something else, other than what you are in fact doing. Don't feel like the lone stranger, most of us spend more time in the past or future than we do in the present.

Present moment awareness is often something that needs to be consciously cultivated. Woodworking is great vehicle for doing just that. Anything that tests ones patience provides a means to gain it. The trick is to simply fully immerse yourself in whatever task is at hand, and forget about the next one until it's time has come. This doesn't mean that you should not plan out your project, or pause to think how the next step will take shape, just don't be thinking about the next step while doing the present one, especially if the present step involves a table saw or router. :eek: Let planning be it's own step. Impatience comes from thinking that something else is more important than that which is happening now.

Dan
 
Dan Forman...you are a very wise man. I read...reread...and reread again your post on patience. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of intelligence that this forum has on it.

I certainly am not up to that level, but I stay here because I figure if I am smart enough to know what is intelligent dialect, then maybe that makes me somewhat smart.
 
Top