Sadly "made in America" does not mean much anymore.

Rob Keeble

Member
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Location
GTA Ontario Canada
In late fall 2012 i purchased a "made in America" rv tavel trailer and did so in America. But last year end of season i had a warranty claim on the Chinese made tires, only to be replaced by Chinese made (American Brand) tires. This weekend after having rims checked and tires balanced i got stuck in and removed Chinese made bearings, from the well made truly made in America axles and hubs, (purchased by the manufacturer as an American made part.)
Sadly after only 3000 miles i had to replace two of the four bearing sets. Due to it being weekend had to put same make back in. Also replaced the grease seals.
I know its all about the buck, but man why make a great axle with lube shaft in center and go and spoil your product by cheaping out on a critical part. They just killed two brands in the process, their own and "made in America". Dont make sense to me even though i get why they do it. Now were they manufacturing a sub assembly where there is no local quality part even then man get something equal to your brand. Saved a few $ and lost a reputation. So sad. Now i got to find some Japanese bearings of same type and replace the lot.

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Since the early 1980's the stewards of the US Government have allowed the manufacturing jobs to be shipped overseas,

along with the equipment to manufacture. They have finally succeded in replacing manufacturing personal wealth building in America

with middleman wealth building in America. Basicaly, outlawed making money by manufacturing goods useful to all through opressive

environmental and social laws, as well as mega lawsuits. While at the same time leaving the middleman personal wealth building process alone

to do as it wishes. It seems it wishes to contract for shoddy goods of all sorts to pass off to the consumer. the consumer really has no

choice in a lot of areas. Pay a reasonable price for crap merchandise middlemaned in, or buy very expensive Northern European goods

that are quailty, but above the pricepoint of many except those who make their money middlemanning shoddy goods. Mercedes as case in point.

They replaced all of the gold mines with merchant shops. Now the gold miners are poor, or unemployed, and the merchants sell them crap.

Things have to change, this can't last forever.

Canada hasn't seen this much upheaval because Canada was not as industrialized over this time period.
 
I dont see why government or politics has to be brought into threads.

For me this is totally about choices we make based on perception.

Scott i came to Canada from South Africa. There i was at one time involved in sourcing components and eventually outsourcing sub assembly manufacture offshore. There were local choices, they did not measure up. Our choice at the time to outsource sub assemblies being made had nothing to do with the government or politics and in order to make such a choice I personally got the task of doing on the ground place by place research until we found a supplier that would meet our criteria both from a quality and price point of view.

My point is that making poor choices as some US manufacturers have chosen to do has cost them more deerly than just damage to their own brand they damaging a brand that is greater than their own that of "made in America".
This is especially relevent when you consider the item i am refering to which is unlikely to be imported as a fully assembled item. Thus a brand chooses to get into the gutter and duke it out with the low cost brands and will feel the consequences.
If they cannot find a way to use the quality of parts used to adequately differentiate themselves as was the case in the past then they should feel the consumer wrath.
Case in point, many many years ago as a teenager working in a hardware store we we would have bricklayers trowels and several other tools on hand that cost a pretty penny but were made in America. They worked such that Portugese builders annually would buy these trowels for the next year (usually they used their Xmas holiday bonus) knowing they would get the use out of them. The local manufacturer was the equivalent of the quality we would get today from China. The " pro" knew what he was getting, in steel, handle and shape.
With hard earned cash at the time i purchased a Crescent brand large side cutters that lasted until a month ago when i did something stupid with it and broke the jaw. Still, they held their edge for 40 years.
Apple has their phone assembly outsourced but they insist and control quality all a matter of choice. Imagine what would happen to Apple brand if they compromised on component quality.

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Of course, I would prefer less outsourcing, we need to employ Americans. But, in business, the lowest cost is the way to go. And, we often equate "made in China" with poor quality. Not always the case. "China" can mean mainland, Hong Kong or Taiwan. Taiwan is our ally and reports are quality of goods made there are quite high. To avoid the political pitfall, I'll stop. OH, BTW, I was recently told that great American icon, John Deere tractors are all now made in China. :(
 
...OH, BTW, I was recently told that great American icon, John Deere tractors are all now made in China. :(

As of 2006, Deere & Company employs approximately 49,000 people in 27 countries worldwide, including the United States, Australia, Turkey, Canada, United Kingdom, China, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, India, Poland, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Morocco and South Africa, among many others and is the largest agriculture machinery company in the world. Inside the United States, the company's primary locations are its administrative center in Moline, Illinois and manufacturing factories in central and southeastern United States.

Factories

Research is always better than rumors. And just in case you doesn't believe Wikipedia, then I invite you to provide substantiation for the "all made in China" claim. ;)
 
Yep - it's about the buck.

To me it's about the buck, but the buck that is in the stock market.

The 401 plans and the ROTH IRA, and the retirement plans

WHAT? - is it that forces a manufacturer to go to less expensive sources for materials?

When companies are public and they need investors to BUY - and not sell - they need to make their stocks attractive.

SOOOO - they get less expensive products so that the stocks can be more valuable - and investors will want more of it.


WHO - are the investors?

YOU >>>


and


ME>>>>

in our retirement plans.

and the wealthy
 
I seem to remember a 60 Minutes or an episode of something somewhere that Made In America means that 80% of the product was assembled here. We had this talk at work Saturday night/Sunday morning and given the political but polite nature of the conversation...I'll spare you the details. Although there is some manufacturing returning to the US...I'd sure like to see more!
 
I remember my nephew comment something about something made in Mexico, said it was not "American". I replied, sure it is...North "American".

There's that movie with Will Ferrell where he's a politician, The Campaign. The manufacturing guys were creating a new city in Asia, called "America", so that they could use the term "Made in America".
 
I remember my nephew comment something about something made in Mexico, said it was not "American". I replied, sure it is...North "American".

There's that movie with Will Ferrell where he's a politician, The Campaign. The manufacturing guys were creating a new city in Asia, called "America", so that they could use the term "Made in America".

Central America, South America, North America...Still looking at Panama for retirement, although I won't be manufacturing anything but pens ;)
 
I remember my nephew comment something about something made in Mexico, said it was not "American". I replied, sure it is...North "American".

There's that movie with Will Ferrell where he's a politician, The Campaign. The manufacturing guys were creating a new city in Asia, called "America", so that they could use the term "Made in America".

I remember my Dad telling me that in the 40's and 50's a US made product was labeled "Made in the U.S.A", Japanese products were considered cheap and poorly made back then so they created a region of Japan where much of their manufacturing was located and called it "USA" (no periods between letters)

On another note, just because someone has a bad experience with a product made here doesn't mean that all products made here stink. It also doesn't mean all Chinese products stink.
 
The real truth is there was a lot of junk made here.. Here being the U.SA. and to think other wise is just selective memory. A lot of great stuff but a lot of junk...

Same is true of most country's today.. The part that upsets me is company's run overseas for cheap labor and then import stuff back in the country at a much higher price than when it was made here paying a decent wage.

One of the biggest examples I saw of this was the plastic seals that go in all sink drains. My local hardware had a box of them in bulk from here and they were a nickle each. I needed one size larger that they only had in bubble packs from overseas and they were 1.69. When I got to the register they rang up at 1.89. Now if anyone ever wondered why moving manufacturing paid off there is a big clue in this example...
 
Well yesterday I wrote to the axle company and let them know what i thought about their choice of bearings. That was after i found the Timken (real made in the USA bearing equivalent) ones at a local bearing retailer for $33 per set where the other brand I purchased on the weekend was $20.
The $20 units were from a discount store like HF they were only ones open when i needed the part so factor that into the retail pricing. Oh and the bearing wholesaler called Timken to verify first where the Timken ones were actually made.
Gary I agree with you every country makes junk, I have personally witnessed what the Germans (who supposedly if one bought into urban legends and their own marketing of German Engineering) would do to their product to compete for a difference of $5 at the end of the line. It lost them more than the market share they were going for by cutting the price through removal of critical protection components it lost them their reputation among former supporters in the case of this specific brand i had the experience with.

I come to realize through the comments that i did not really do very well getting my point across as usual for me. What i wanted to achieve was not discourse or sorrow about where things have gone from and to in nostalgia terms but get our pros thinking next time they choose a material that impacts their own reputation just what the extra few $$ are worth to them in the long run. If there was any criticism i would make of my experiences in North America as a whole it is always focusing on the short term rather than the long haul. Yup all driven by the quarterly results. Yet when you look at listed public companies on the whole they equate to tankers rather than some nimble speedboat and it takes a fair bit of time to turn a tanker in a different direction. Yet shareholders persist in insisting on results every 3 months. Unrealistic to say the least.

What i think is lacking is the ability of individual small entities to adequately articulate and communicate the detail that they go to that makes a difference. Probably getting even harder when one considers consumer attention spans.
But as a case in point i think i finally found a small shop to work on my vehicles. Yesterday i had them fit new tires to my Jeep. I asked upfront if i could watch the process. I came away more than delighted. The way the guy went about doing the job from start to finish was absolutely refreshing. The rims had corrosion on the inside where tire met aluminum from trapped moisture. Previous places just just installed the new tires over the old. This guy went and got his drill with a small wire cup brush, proceeded to clean away all the corrosion then put a black paint on treatment on the inside edge and only then put the new tire on with the appropriate lubricant to assist in rolling them on the rims. With careful attention being paid to the Tire pressure monitoring valve stems. After balancing he then cleaned up the hubs centers which are steel and were corroded and put anti seize on the edges to prevent the binding he experienced getting the wheels off.

That's the detail but none of it was explained as something they would do if required when the sale was going down. This is probably the correct standard practice just i have never encountered a shop that has done this or gone about the job anything like they did. If they had there would have been less price negotiation on my part as the value was clearly there. I did take time to explain this to the owner after but he could not understand what i was on about so i left it.

I know that corrosion as it had built up was causing tire leak in winter, so i am very pleased they treated it without me even knowing or asking about it. That to me is a sign of pros and quality workmanship so they now got my support.
 
German's make junk tell me it isn't so... actually my first new car was a 68 Opel..
Learned a lesson there but the current Jetta TDI really has my attention.

Btw way the tires on the new Travel Trailer I bought lasted 5000 miles. They did replace them. And decent trailer tires can be hard to find.

I spent some years in manufacturing and have seen plenty of examples of quality departmrnts being the problem. Or at least the people in them, I'd love to share some real life examples with you some time.


And most of these added to the cost and still screwed up the product..
 
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Vaughn, I did qualify by saying "I was told". FWIW, the guy who told me owns and farms thousands of acres of soybeans and other truck in Arkansas. His tractors are mostly very large tracked JDs which he says are China made. Admittedly, the issue gets fuzzy with assembly in one place from parts made elsewhere. My American made Dodge truck was built in Mexico. Go figger.
 
It makes sense to me that if a company has grown to be a global company that makes durable products that are in high demand that they would expand manufacturing to different parts of the world not just in the US :dunno:
 
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