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Thread: I need to apologize

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    St. Mary's, Georgia

    I need to apologize

    I need to apologize to some members here, first I don't mean in any form or other about the word Pine, an I want to explain to you why I don't use it. I've been doing wood working off an on for the past 35 years an I did use Pine in the beginning until I met a few other wood workers overseas. They pulled me off the side an explain to me this statement, ( If you are going to make something nice, make it with a statement, use quality an do it right the first time ) . My problem wasn't my abilities it was the wood I used. Pine is great to use to practice with an for structural things. But when it comes to making something really nice that is going to stand out make it stand out with the right woods.
    Over the past 16 years I have been playing that forward , if you come to my shop to visit an you made something nice out of the P-word I would send you home with some nice hardwoods to help you come out of your comfort zone. If you come an do a class you will only use hard woods.
    If I made you mad I'M SORRY BUT I WILL ALWAYS TRY TO ENCOURGE YOU TO USE BETTER WOODS !!!! That's just me, if you want me to leave the forum here just let me know. If not I will not change I will always will encourage you to come out of your comfort zone

    Roy Millsaps

    If you are going to make something nice, make it with a statement, use quality an do it right the first time

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    falcon heights, minnesota
    no worries roy! all wood is good wood, i've made a small side table of brazilian cherry for a friend of mine, and a very nice tea stained, cedar lined chest for my sister that turned out very nicely, and a cradle for some friends in pine that turned out very well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails finished table 1a.JPG   finished table 2a.JPG   assembled with bedding.jpg  
    benedictione omnes bene

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Independence MO
    I don't think that hardwoods are necessarily better woods, by any means. Pine is called for sometimes if one is recreating something historic, or sometimes in restoring old homes. (in my area, bungelow kitchens, were originally painted, pine) That isn't structural, by code, if not attached. (separate pieces of furniture)
    Even Balsa wood has a place (gliders, and such).
    That doesn't even mention that cost has ALWAYS been a factor (in the history of workbenches, beech may have been popular in one area, due to cost and strength).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Reno NV
    Roy, No worries at all. FWW just has some rules that are unique to our site.

    The rule against using 'hieroglyphics' or misc characters was meant to keep folks from using commonly used substitutions for swearing.

    This was a pretty unique case, since it was the first time anybody has ever used hieros to obfuscate a relatively common word, like 'pine'.

    But, as they say, Rules is rules, and everyone was just doing their best to make sure the rules were followed.

    I do have to admit, after seeing all the fantastic work you do, I can see why that might be a dirty word in your shop!

    Please don't hold it against us.


    Programmer - An organism that turns coffee into software.
    If all your friends are exactly like you, What an un-interesting life it must be.
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" Ogden Nash

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    The Gorge Area, Oregon
    While we may pine for nicer woods,
    Sometimes one wonders just what fir.

    We shall not walnut in our haste,
    Nor use what yew need not.

    For every tree sure has a use,
    Scuse me while I avoid this knot.

    More seriously while I agree that pine in painful to do some kind of work in, it sure does have it's place at times and all pine was not created equal. I short of look at this in the same light as the absolutists argument against end grain. Should you avoid it in some cases? Sure! But the knowing of the when, where and why is the rub. There are other woods I'd avoid for some uses just as assiduously where they are just great for other uses. Another great example of work in a pine is the gorgeous translucent Norfolk island pine turnings. We saw some of those in a couple of galleries last time we were in Maui and man they were a revelation (no pictures allowed in the gallery of course).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Reno NV

    I really think you need to check out Vogon Poetry.

    I think it's something you might to have a knack for it, LOL...

    Programmer - An organism that turns coffee into software.
    If all your friends are exactly like you, What an un-interesting life it must be.
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" Ogden Nash

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Tokyo Japan
    Well there is pine and then there is Pine, most pine I see in the DIY shops here in Japan is really poor quality that is then jigsaw puzzled together to make a larger board. What I really dislike about pine is that most anyone who tries to stain it has no idea and they use a pigment stain and it gets all blotchy, and looks really bad, I see samples of the stain on wood at the DIY shops and they use plain pine, it is blotchy and look really bad, if they used some sanding sealer or shellac on it first it would look much better. Good old growth straight grained clear pine can be very beautiful, but you don't see that much anymore.

    Thank you for the Clarification of what you meant Roy, now lets all get back to woodworking!
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
    William Arthur Ward

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Delton, Michigan
    you cant leave, you just got here and we havnt learned enough from you .. you got more to show us and teach us
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Roy where i grew up I would agree that pine was a dirty word. LOL Annual growth as a result of Northern Hemisphere pine being transplanted to a different climate resulted in pine with 10 cm or more annual rings. The result was absolutely terrible wood. BUt its purpose was more for pulp and paper and yeah they used it for rafters, have no idea how they kept it straight for that purpose.

    Today said Pine trees, planted at the headwaters of rivers by original immigrants are being removed as an pest under a project "working for water" sponsored by the UN. Pines soak up an incredible amount of water each day and basically Pine forests in South Africa contributed to lack of water downstream for all sorts of uses one of them being human drinking water. So yeah in some places its an alien species. LOL

    Then one day as a youngster i needed a decent bed upon moving out of home and came across a woodworking plan that called for Oregon Pine (Douglas Fir) and i had to pay a small fortune for it given it was imported. When finished it produced a lovely color. The bed has been with me the whole time and even traveled over to Canada with me and recently i had to modify the bed and purchased some quarter sawn douglas fir locally. That wood was to die for. Expensive I thought, but beautiful in my opinion.

    I also think for a woodworker starting out to make a workbench from pine 2x4 as i have done its not only cost effective but a quick economical way to get a decent bench top. Some day when time permits i would like to upgrade the top to a nice hardwood but for now with me abusing it by working on it with mechanical things that leave grease and oil on it , it would absolutely break my heart if it were decent hardwood. Thats one beauty of pine you can abuse it with no concern as to the cost.

    And sorry i did not have time at the time to post in your workbench thread a pic of my inlay on my workbench so i post one here for you now. I used bloodwood to cut out the Maple leaf and insert it on the benchtop. Worked ok for my first ever attempt, but to your point of the pine well cutting into the soft surface for inlay was not the most crisp edges even though i tried using sharp tools.

    I did clad my bench in all sorts of hard wood some with a sentimental touch like the unseen in these images Walnut that came to me in Canada personally delivered by Larry Merlau of our forum. My bench would not have been complete with out that touch. The leg vice is a rip off of one Stu Ablett also a member created and inspired me to try out. and the end vice is a Canadian antique given to me by the first friend i made coming to Canada, it was his Dads workbench vice and he no longer had use for it. (yeah guess i am a bit of a sentimentalist focus more on the mental than sentiment ). And given I am rambling on those bench hooks you see are the best value for money i have come across in woodworking tools that work amazingly. (gramercy).

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    East Freeetown, Massachusetts
    Roy - just stay.

    Forums are a tough media sometimes.

    There needs to be rules.

    We don't like rules - but they do come in handy sometimes and they do keep things on an even keel.

    Your work is spectacular and there are many people here that come here seeking wisdom, knowledge, inspiration, and to enhance our level of creativity.

    There is NOTHNG in the rules that hinders that.

    The only thing that hinders growth - is when people do not post.

    Please do not hinder my growth by not posting

    I love seeing what you do - and in your postings here I have been inspired in many ways.

    If you like or do not like pine - That is a personal choice. For me - pine has it's place.

    PLEASE KEEP POSTING - and please, just be patient with the rules - they don't really hurt - they are just a little annoying - but we need them.


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