Which plane and why

Rob Keeble

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GTA Ontario Canada
So by now i guess most know of the new line Lee Valley have put out in the way of Handplanes.

Yesterday i received a mini catalog with these pages in it and I thought it would be of value to put them out here for some discussion because they do a great job of showing what the big feature of this series is.

Lee Valley Planes_0001.jpgLee Valley Planes_0002.jpgLee Valley Planes_0003.jpgLee Valley Planes_0004.jpg

Personally i think these planes are a modern work of art if you one admires design and engineering and innovation. But that's just me.

My dilemma and something i want to gather input on is something that i feel is missing from all this marketing. Sure it tells me the options i can get with each plane in excellent detail. But it kind of reminds me of the time when i was marketing a complicated system that i had acquired a patent on in an entrepreneurial manner but did not know the real value of to the customers i was trying to sell it to, so i could not put it to them at that point in time in terms of how it would relate to value for them.

There is an assumption made again in my opinion (and i am no plane aficionado but I am a customer and a woodworker) that all woodworkers know exactly why they need each of these planes.

I already have a #4 and a #5 and #7 all old stanleys. I have a Lee Valley low angle block plane and love it to bits. For reasons that make me want to go out and get a few of these. The biggest one is , it works and the machining etc and features are just less fiddle than my old stanleys apart from my #7.

But i dont see any informative information on how and why i should buy one of each of these planes and what their individual purpose is.

Now i know we say the #4 is for smoothing yeah i get that and the #5 is the good old general purpose carpenters do it all plane and i know the #7 is a jointer.

But what about the 4 1/2 and the 5 1/2 ? Where do they fit into the process of dealing with milling a piece of wood.

Take note were one to go out and buy one of each of the lowest cost of these planes one is looking at $1615 in planes (and for Canadians that's before the 13% tax) so in reality $1 825

That's a lot of woodworking coin for one specific operation.

But there is a bigger issue that's kicking around my head and preventing me from rushing off and pulling the trigger.

With all these planes being able to be customized by frog, tote and knob besides blade, why could i not achieve a great compromise and buy a single one say the #5 and get a variety of frogs for it and perhaps even two totes and have a pretty good all round plane for use outside my initial jointing.

Now that may be a little extreme given its length so ok lets say a #4 1/2 thrown in too because then at least i have a wide smoother. ;):D

So that gets me down to $670 including our taxes. But now we in the realms of what i paid for my DW735 planer and my Grizzly 8 inch jointer. Yeah yeah i know not the same things if you love handtools.

So whats your take, can you explain to me in compelling reasons why i need one of each of them. :thumb::)
 
well rob,, this is a good question and am looking to see what glenn has to say on this, he uses a low angle plane alot for smoothing i think and would like to get something that would do that for my tool crib:)
 
For what I do most, my 4½'s see the most use. I have four of them (among my 70+ 'collection'), and they all get used regularly. I prefer the heavier heft of the 4½ over the 4. I actually like the WWII era version with their heavier castings.

For the LV offering, I'd go with the 4½, with two frogs - 45° and 55° - with the fine-threaded adjuster, low 'mushroom' knob and the Stanley style medium-sized tote. That would give me a very versatile smoother.
 
Great question Rob.

It has always seemed to me that there is a fair bit of overlap in the #4 -#5 planes. For normal users (I.e. not collectors) it seems that it's somewhat a matter of choice as to which you'd want (how to pick between them without trying though..).

I'm not really sure that swapping frogs would be practical in use, at least not with any frequency. Possible yes, but seems somewhat fussy. For trying out an alternative angle having the option to swap out seems like it could be interesting anyway.

While I certainly applaud the innovation, the array of choices for appear a bit overwhelming :)
 
The short answer is: You don't need one of each.

Ignoring the "Custom" aspect of different sized handles and angle frogs, just considering the stanley #1-#8 line alone, for a moment. The variety isn't necessarily "each plane for a specific purpose" - it's more of a "each plane for a specific woodworker's preferences for a specific task". Like you said, the #4 and the #4-1/2 are pretty much the same besides width - that is a preference thing. Heck, I'd even lump the #5 in there as well since it isn't much longer.

You're right, the marketing does a good job of letting you make an emotional decision and want to buy 'em all up. That's sort of the unsaid secret about most marketing, though, right? Say enough to get you to want it, whether you need it or not is not germane to its task: sell as many as possible. Caveat emptor is rarely served by the marketing material (and I'd argue any material provided by the one doing the selling, regardless of reputation).

I read a lot of Patrick's Blood and Gore (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html) and then set about using a few as I encountered friends who had them. I have a #4, #5, #8 and a #62 and the only reason I have the #5 is because it was free. I think i'm covered for all MY planing needs. I see little point in anything smaller than a #4 for my needs in bench planes (i don't include luthier's planes in this). I rarely use the #8 because i have a powered jointer and planer and am not all that anti-sandpaper - though I never consider any power tooled surface a 'finish-ready' surface because they're never that smooth.

It's definitely up to the buyer to know what they want before they plunk down their money. The easiest way for me to know which planes I want is to get my hands on one and use it for a little bit on a purpose that I would consider frequent in my shop. That's not always easy for someone to do, i understand, if they don't have a lot of woodworking buddies nearby to swap planes with. I've been fortunate there. I can't think of a better way for someone to 'caveat' before they 'emptor' :p
 
Larry,

The #62 is probably my go-to plane for just about everything. It's pretty handy and I'm not fanatical enough about bevel angles or orientation, i just get a shaving and run with that. I forgot i also built a wooden jointer plane a few years ago and use that for longer edges. Once in awhile, I break out that #5 because it's already tuned and i have kind of neglected the #4.

I don't plane much, though, i should mention. On a given furniture project, 3 or 4 parts may see a plane. I'm neither "power" nor "neander" - i use whatever tools get me the results i want - electrons or not :D
 
Let me be the odd man out. I don't even own a plane. Never seemed to see the need for one.

well dan once you get one and learn how to use them and where they are good for you will wonder how you ever done a project without one..

jason,, what do you use the 62 for? smoothing or jointing or beveling.. i see where glenn B uses his for smoothing alot..
 
Larry - that would've probable been helpful info, huh? LOL

Most of the time, i use it for jointing shorter board's edges and some smoothing. I have a shooting board in process that was designed around it as well, so i'll likely be using it for that soon, too.
 
As a lot of you know I sell reground planes, so I can be taken lopsidely. I am also retired and have a lot of time for wood working when life doesn't get in the way. I work mostly in Oak,Walnut and Cherry and I simply love Cherry. I also love my #80 stanley cabinate scraper. I believe that the craftsmen of old would have used power tool if they had had them. Having said that I find myself using both a #80 and a hand scraper followed up with sand paper to finish of a board from a planner and not a smoother. I see no reason for a higher angle frog. I use hand plane when necessary and for fitting and so on, My favorate go to plane is a ECE reformed smoothing plane, you got it, the one with the cherry body.

Having been woodworking fo 45 years I have been bitten by the new and better bug quite often, and and although they are new and flashy I don't see anything new under the sun and there is nothing in the new release that would make me want to buy any of them. I am sorry but I feel that with the woodworking we get in real time, the money could be spent more wisely like buying wood and getting things out of the shop.

An open sided block plane would have been just the ticket 3 weeks ago but my 78 got the job done and my desire for the othew also went away.I would however love to have a LN fishtail chisel. but a at $ 78 for one it isn't going to happen, to many othe ways to deal with the problem

Is there anything wrong with buying one, no a person should be allowed to spend ( his her) money anyway they want. But contrary to some popular beliefs one cant buy skill. That you have to earn.

Buy from the heart and not so you will have more and better tools to show your friends.
 
I seldom use a plane often so can't comment on the why or how. But, the cost of those seems grossly overboard. There are a lot of items on the market that are well made, far more complex and cost less. A good rifle comes to mind. Methinks if one wants a plane they can be found in any antique shop for about $20.00. Most will need some clean-up and maybe bottom flattening which is an easy job. I don't get it. :huh: Maybe it is a marketing thing. Appeal to a niche market of guys with fat wallets.
 
I seldom use a plane often so can't comment on the why or how. But, the cost of those seems grossly overboard. There are a lot of items on the market that are well made, far more complex and cost less. A good rifle comes to mind...

Successful pricing has very little to do with the complexity of the product. It's all about what the market will bear. Granted, I wouldn't spend $275 to $375 for a high-end plane, but there are apparently plenty of others who will. And some of those guys would think you or I were crazy to spend that same amount of money on a gun (or guitar).

By the way, where are you finding good rifles for $275 to $375? :D
 
Most will need some clean-up and maybe bottom flattening which is an easy job.

Shinning up the bottom is easy, flattening is hard. I ground one the other day and was amassed that it was totally flat within .005. First one I have ever seen that was that close . It was high in the middle like most. That's why the cut is started with pressure on the knob but the chip brakes as soon as the pressure is switched to the handle.

My next question is why dose every plane found in the wild need flattening? Take the Bedrock for example, the frog off from a round side will fit a flat side, holes don't line up, but the sliding fit fits. And the frog from a Keen Kutter K series fits a Bedrock round side and the sliding fit is there on the flat side also. So how is it that they were able to hold interchangeable sliding fits for better than 50 years but couldn't get one plane flat? And how a person, with no metal working experience, can read a book and get the job done when the Manufacturer couldn't even get one flat is beyond me.
 
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