how do we fix this? PLEASE READ

larry merlau

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Delton, Michigan
first off, i know this could be in the off topic forum but there are many that dont go there and i want to get this to as many as i can.. so bear with me here please!

we just had a moderator election come up and couldnt get enough volunteers for a vote so just signed up the ones we needed.. during the last couple years the forum seems to have slowed down a lot from the way it was when we were first started.. lately there are maybe 10 new posts each day when i get on to check,, and there seems to be a lack of interest in posting..

so here is my question, what is it that you dont like about this forum as it is today or in the past and how do you think we as in the forum staff and membership can fix it? feel free to voice your real thoughts not the politically correct ones with in reason of course:).. i have been here a long time and served as moderator a couple times and know that they are fair in there thoughts, each group of staff have new ideas and they have jelled together for the good of the forum.. so for example if you think that the forum has cliches that get special treatment say so here, and give us reasons why and how to change it.. but from my time here that isnt the case, do some of us chat back and forth,yes, just as you do with your friends.. but we dont set back and let someone struggle with a wood working question or need.. so please take the time to make this forum alive again and give us a chance to get this back up to speed, and please let your friends know of this thread in case they dont see it. the more we get involved here the better it will be.. and one last statement i want to make....this forum is special in the fact that many of you are considered family and are treated as such by many of us here.. that doesnt happen nearly as much if at all in the other larger forum groups.. think about that when you decide to write your ideas or not here.. thanks for listening
 
I think its important to state that for me, personally, the friendships Ive made here, live, in person, has nothing to do with posting quality or lack of posting quantity.
It can actually be a lot of members here just are so busy with life and family, they aren't building much, or doing anything else woodworking wise.
I personally would like to see a lot more flatwork, but seems that section is almost dead besides cutting boards.
not sure why, maybe the flat workers are on break.

I don't think anything is broken, I think its just the cycles people are going through.
 
Personally I have a lack of computerese expertise which leaves me reluctant to get to fancy.
This coming week hope to get some expert advise on said subject. I thoroughly enjoy this
forum but also have noted the reduction of people participating. To bad, as I have picked up
some neat tricks and jig making. Just don't have the confidence to go all out as a moderator.
Maybe next time.
David

Using a nexus tablet does make sending posts a lot simpler than a big computer.
 
I came here looking for a woodworking forum, and have been here almost since the beginning. I check in a couple times each day, but I block a number of areas when I check "what's new" ... areas such as carpentry (been there, done that, but graduated to furniture), jigs (I use euro equipment, which has very limited jig requirements, and those are different), Old iron (my heavy equipment needs are fulfilled), Hot deals (not in the market), All things musical (although I am playing with rebuilding a violin, that is an exception- not a hobby), cook shack (a distraction from woodworking), family gatherings (delightful visit with Stu Ablett, but in general, don't go visiting woodworkers) etc. etc. I am not interested in a social forum, but a woodworking forum.

Bottom line, there has been so much beyond my focus in woodworking that interest faded.... until I looked for a competing forum. After trying a few others, I saw how good this one is, and I am back - and enjoying the woodworking of family woodworking by ignoring the "social forum" aspect.
 
I pretty much agree with Allen.

For me it's just no real shop time. I can't get motivated to build anything. Maybe I'm going through a depression of sorts probably due to my constant back pain and a few family issues.

I was going to run for mod again but I'm not a big fan of elections for positions like this. It bothers me when I beat someone out or if someone beats me out. I'd prefer to have appointed positions. Just being honest Larry.

Is there a clique? I don't think so but it's a bit annoying to see 3 pages of posts on someones pork shoulder and just a few posts on someones project.

I get really annoyed when someone takes the time to post a project they made and the first few responses are from members who feel the need to show off and post pictures of their own project on the same thread.
 
I'm guilty of not posting much work recently, mainly because I'm taking a long break from large flatwork projects. I've been concentrating on learning new things, like casting acrylic blanks for pens and stoppers, and stabilizing woods before turning.

My first step when getting on FW is to hit the "New Posts" button to see what's happening. I don't block anything because there might be a post to which I can respond. In other cases, I don't post a response because anything I could say has already been said. When I look at the block at the bottom of the page showing who has viewed a thread, it's obvious that most people do much as I do.

I check out other forums and participate to a greater or lesser degree. Other forums are, in general, friendly with no cat-fighting, but there's more of a family feel here on FW. Having met a couple of folks also solidifies my feeling about this forum.

As to the lack of volunteers to be moderators, I'll repeat what I said in another thread: I think most people visit a forum to research and ask questions. They have no interest in being more active than that. Trying to make people feel guilty for not volunteering will only serve to run them off.
 
Well, you asked. Please don't take this as me saying I hate this place, actually I love it! But as a more recent member who doesn't have a lot of posts, the ones I do put up seem to be ignored, as though I'm persona non grata (or whatever that funky phrase is). Let me also add: I'm sure that's not the case....it's just the way I feel. But that led me to believe that submitting my name to the election would just be an embarrassment; I'm not even sure I would have voted for me. My comments are more about 2 things: this really does come across (again, to ME) as a good 'ol boys and girls club and outside of that circle you are more or less a passing stranger. But I also agree with a few things Charlie said, about the forums. The cook shack, all things musical, and family gatherings (didn't even know that one existed) do seem out of place on a woodworking forum. But I do suspect that some of the slow traffic (limited responses) may be due to that inner circle thing I mentioned. Please, I hope no one beats me up for this...just expressing my opinions to the question. BTW, I would point out that just because you are a new member here, it doesn't mean you have nothing to offer.
 
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Because it is different than it once was does not necessarily mean it needs fixing. The people here are more 'real' to me because we do share other stuff and we do get together face to face occasionally. And, yes, threads sometimes go off the rails with unrelated stuff or just kidding around. But there are plenty of other forums where only woodworking is discussed. This one is different. It recognizes that there is more to life than woodworking, as fun as that is. It is also about woodworkers, and the people they are and the things they deal with in life.

As for becoming moderators. Frankly, I am sort of glad that we had an election by affirmation this time. Some new faces are in there this time. The last few elections saw people who have served more than once being voted in because of name recognition and new faces not getting enough of a vote count. Sort of discourages new people, when it appears to be a popularity contest. I wanted to discuss a way of maybe getting new people in there but was blasted thoroughly via PM, I just deleted my post and won't offer that up again. Not everyone is open minded but that is not uncommon, even on a public forum.

Do we have cliques? The charge has been made before, but I don't think it is true. There are those who post often, some who have a comment on everything, pertinent or not, many who just lurk and take away whatever it is that they enjoy/need. Some have met face to face and enjoyed it so much that we happily encourage others to join in the festivities. And food and music have been a part of that big time.

Bottom line, first we are people, most of whom like each other, who also do some woodworking and share those experiences occasionally. Some in great detail with in progress shots. Some with only completed projects. It is all good. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
Well, I think we should recall the admins & mods pay, and divvy it up to the members who stay active with postings :D

My pet peeve...folks who post their works yet 'seldom' to 'if ever' reply to others :crazy:

Up and down activity seems to be a way of life in forum land. Life gets busy, shop work slows down...:(

Very few conversation starters, "looks great", "nice job", can only carry one so far. I think we could
use more "how'd you do that?, why not try this? What did you find to be the hardest aspect of that build? Etc. :knock:

'Box swap' drew me in here, and if I recall properly, we at one time had over 30 participants, nowadays one can
barely find a thread 'wood-related' get 30 replies :doh:

Me? I probably post too much, just be glad I'm not a true relative of yours...because come holidays and just plain visits > I eat more than I talk :eek::D


Hey Larry, you started this, what are some of your thoughts on upping participation?
 
My thoughts are along the same lines as others have stated, I personally am not interested in cooking and other assorted topics, so I don't participate in those that I find no interest in and don't know how they fit in with woodworking?. I know everybody has their own things that interest them, and that's fine. I personally came here for the woodworking aspect of our forum and I have taken far more than I have given as far as woodworking knowledge goes. I just have more interest in flatwork and sorry to say for the past few months I have had back pain that has kept me from doing much in the shop, but that is another story.
I would like to see more work posted and discussed, I really like seeing the Jigs that some have made and have even tried a few of them with great success. SO, I guess I am saying we need to find ways to involve our members with doing, and posting more wood working projects, after all, this is "Family Woodworking" right?
 
For the most part, we keep things light, and I haven't seen the kind of nastiness that sometimes occurs on other forums. That makes this a good place to be.

What has bothered me for a while is the fact that this is a woodworking forum trying to be all things to all members. When I go to 'new posts' and find that three quarters of the posts are from the Off Topic Area, I begin to wonder if I am really here to discuss woodworking, or to see youtube posts that are not remotely connected to woodworking, to read how to smoke brisket, to hear a new joke, to check out a cool music video or to have a discussion on gun control.

It seems to me that the off topic posts often get more attention than the woodworking posts. The off-topics have run away with this forum. I think the people on here are great, and I hope to meet some of you, sometime. (Rob K, maybe we should meet next time I come to T.O. to visit?) I don't feel excluded by any cliques, as I have on some other forums. The experienced people who post often are just that, people who post often, and have encouragement or valuable advice to offer. The fact that we talk to each other doesn't constitute cliquishness. (I didn't expect that word to pass my spell chequer, but hey....)

If we can get back to our roots, and be a woodworking forum where the primary discussions are on woodworking, i think we will gain strength by being who we wanted to be. Major life events have a place here: marriages, birthday congrats, births, even deaths in the immediate family, but do we really need to be posting about nearly forgetting our anniversary? (Guilty as charged! :D ) If my wife or son dies, I would offer it as a reason for having been away, but I wouldn't take time out of my grieving to let my woodworking forum know about it. If my best friend or my favorite uncle dies, it's none of your business, and I wouldn't post it here. I sure don't need to read about unfair taxes or non-shop insurance matters. (Sorry, Carol, not a barb at you directly.)

I shattered another bowl yesterday, but I was more hesitant to post about it than I was about my recent anniversary, partly because I don't have pictures (things do exist even if they are described verbally only) and it is a little difficult to phrase the question I need to ask. Don't worry, I will blurt it out soon.

We need to be a woodworking forum, and only a woodworking forum, if we are to continue growing, attract new members, and hold on to the ones we have.
 
This surprises me a little. I was just thinking the other day the hey, we are getting some new members and some that have been gone a while are coming back. That is great. Guess the was a miss-conception on my part. Personally I am trying to spend less time on the computer so I can get some of the projects done my wife has planned, i.e., finish off the basement, down size the junk inventory, hers and mine, and think about moving. I don't want to move so I have been really dragging my feet on this. But, this is my favorite forum because it has such a variety. I do think it is lacking in the Flatwork category but I don't add much there so I can't complain there.

I really think it is just a cycle and people getting ready for winter and the holiday season. I would love to see more "how to" item, like the carving class that is starting. Not sure if I can take the time to join in now, but I can check in and learn. Some one was going to show some how to on leather work and that is neat as far as I am concerned. I love to watch Dave's painting progress. You just don't find such a variety on other forums.

As to monitors, I have never volunteered, sorry, that is just me. I don't really know why, other than since I retired, I don't like to make commitments... I know it is not the right way to be, but it is the truth.

I am another one that liked the way it happened this time. I say ask for volunteers and when you get the number needed they are it.

And I am just rambling and not adding anything useful, so I will stop.
 
Visited many a forums, joined several in order to get specific questions answered or certain knowledge. Came here when I was seeing an exodus from another forum and also looking for info on one specific tool. Visiting goes through a period of here, then no time for forums. Work has got in the way so much the last couple of years, some other woodworking friends have died or sold off stuff (finished projects or couldn't afford it), while I look at it more as a long term for my sanity hobby. I may not have time to do things now, but it doesn't mean I can't try to learn for when time and money both happen at the same time.
 
I've been around here for quite a while (lol) and I've seen a lot of ebb and flow over the years. For the past three years, I've done nearly zero woodworking since I've been living 800 miles away from my shop. (That is changing soon. The shop is moving.) I think a lot of members here are doing less woodworking than they were 5 years ago. For some it's because other interests come up, for others it's physical issues, or work, or kids, or spouses...life in general. Speaking for myself, I'd be bored to tears if woodworking was the only thing that I enjoyed doing. I will always be a woodworker, but I'm not going to limit myself to just that.

Over the years, this forum has become a lot more than a woodworking forum. It's a community. We have a common interest in woodworking, but many of us also share other common interests, and I see no harm in sharing those interests with each other. Don't care about smoking brisket or playing the guitar? Don't click on the thread. Want to share your joy of discovering windsurfing? Share it with the Family. Chances are there are others here who share your passion. I see this forum as being similar to a bar down at the wharf. All of us are fishermen, but when we're sitting around the tavern, we don't just talk of fishing; we talk about a lot of things.

As for participation, I wish I had a good answer. Some people are watchers, some are talkers. As evidenced by my post count, I'm one of the latter. :rolleyes: I make a particular effort to try to comment on woodworking threads that seem to be getting little attention, but I also tend to just chime in on all sorts of other threads to offer advice, encouragement, congratulations, or humor. Good or bad, that's my way of contributing and trying to get others to chime in. I'm the same way in person. It's not likely to change.
 
Seems to me that we are asking regular members why we think others have left. Maybe we should be asking the once active members why they haven't posted. I believe that we have everyones email address. Maybe we can send them a questionnaire :dunno:

Cliques. There are quite a few of us who post regularly and are quite friendly. Maybe that intimidates some folks and don't join in.

Ken, right on. Folks who post their own project and never comment on others is really disappointing.
 
I am active on the forum when I am doing woodworking. Not so much as of late because......been too busy. I was attracted to this forum because it is family oriented. Some of the other forums I participated with were far too impolite and cliquey. I am unfortunately going to be far too busy for at least a few years to do much woodworking at all. A necessary evil to get the home fiances in order. However, when I finely get the opportunity to retire and have quality time in the shop I will gladly return.

One thought did cross my mind. Perhaps we should form some local chapters of the forum and sponsor member run informational booths at our county fairs with member demonstrations and fine crafts on display. I know the first objection would be who will underwrite the costs involved. Well, I wont promise anything yet, but I will most likely be in a position to do something like that after I get my business going. I am a firm believer in culture and craftsmanship. I believe that it sometimes takes personal commitment and investment in such things to make all of society better.

Another thing some of us might find the time to do is mentor the young in woodworking. I know some members are already doing this. I have a friend who volunteers at a local "troubled boys" ranch teaching them woodworking skills, He is really a life coach and woodworking is the vehicle used to teach them discipline and relationship skills. Now that is Family!
 
I personally don't see anything broken or wrong with the site. Everybody is friendly and helpful. 99% of the time I don't even log in unless I am planning on posting something.

I am just really busy and for most of the forums I visit, it amounts to a "drive-by" visit to see what is being posted, then I have to get back to work, family, garden, etc. depending on the season.

Once the garden/fruits starts producing in mid-may, the wife and I are picking/canning every night. At the end of a season, about now (just finished canning the sweet potato's), we can nearly 800 jars and 30 loaves of zucchini bread. So the any free time I get, I just go out into the shop, turn on the MP3 player with the audio bible on it and putz around for an hour or so.

I am guilty of spamming other peoples projects post, my bad. But the reason I seem to do it is because I make something in the short time I have available and it is simply, not fancy, and I don't think it is worthy of posting. But when I see someone else post something similar, I think "Hey, I did one too that was similar" and tag it in the their post, rather than starting a new post.

Therefore my "screen" time is a few minutes during lunch and a few minutes at night. So my posts are "drive-by" posts as well. But I do visit everyday, lunch and night time.

Rob
 
Many of you know I run a woodworking forum myself. I kind of inherited it and we're seeing a similar slowdown.

I also notice post counts declining on SMC, another forum I frequent.

I'm seeing woodworking participation declining in general across the board.

The regular general membership of any forum is going to disagree with the accusation of "cliques" -- it's natural -- because they're the ones who appear to be in it. It doesn't matter if there actually are cliques - the perception matters. I also think it's just natural. Groups of people over time clump together - it's why we have cities, states, countries. It's human nature. I don't think there's anything you can do about it.

I, too, filter out the fragmentation here - tailored to my interests. I don't care about cooking (if i did, this wouldn't be my go-to place). As owner of a forum with a handful of people who want to break off separate forums from time to time, I sympathize with the few vocal members wanting separate little groups for each type of subject. I also try to keep in mind the voice of the unspoken majority -- the people who come to a forum for it's intended purpose primarily -- the ones who don't really care to split things further but also feel that it isn't their place to speak against "the regulars" or to cast a negative tone.

Most of us were raised with "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" so it's only natural that supportive responses are going to be the majority -- that doesn't necessarily reflect reality, though. Those people aren't inclined to ask for the whole group to change and so they go dormant and eventually move on.

The place works the way the active people want it to work - and for some, that seems like the way it should be, right? Don't vote, don't complain. But people vote with their feet, too. If the group of active members isn't their cup of tea, they move on.

Specifically about this place, my is this: We're a social group more than a woodworking group. There is woodworking information to be found, but the majority of posts aren't what i would call hardcore woodworking content. There are some, and i don't want to discount those here who contribute incredible woodworking content. They're just a bit lost in the din of all the other stuff - and that's fine. That's the dynamic of this group - i think the fragmentation and support of that fragmentation is a little beyond what someone who comes here looking for serious woodworking content would see as evidence that this isn't really a serious woodworking group. It's not bad - i'm not saying that - i'm just saying it has an impact on the membership and how it will grow.

My own experience as a member: I consider myself sort of on the fringe of the "clique" that I consider the 'regular crowd'. I know some of you guys fairly well. I can't say I'm fully "in" with the crowd, but i'm not entirely outside, either. Much of that is probably my own personality. I don't really care if a few people in a group don't want to hear what I have to say, I speak when I think there's an audience that might get something from it. I try to, anyway. I wouldn't take the accusation of cliques as something to defend or refute - that keeps coming up is evidence enough that the appearance of it exists. The fix? I don't think there is one ... the group itself is its clique - some people are welcomed, some people are alienated. It's how it works when you group people together.

My personal interest in this forum? I don't come here for woodworking content unless it's from one or two members that i know post the kind of thing i'm interested in. I think the mission as a woodworking forum for this place has gotten a little lost in following all the other interests that many of us share. I don't see any reason for there to be more than one place for all those other sections - let them all be in off-topic -- and let them get lost, they're not the primary focus of this forum, they don't deserve so much curation.

I guess my opinion is that this place has lost it's specific purpose as a woodworking forum - but because it has woodworking in the name and purports to be primarily about it, many members realize this and lose interest. I personally don't post here as much for two reasons: I have another place I call home, that's fair to say. But also, I don't feel like people here are as interested in the stuff I have to post lately. I'm not doing a ton of actual woodworking lately, but my projects are to enable me to do some pretty cool woodworking stuff. The problem is that it's edge stuff already and I would be contributing to the wayward path this group seems to be on. Also, it's not really woodworking YET.


Boy - talk about stream of consciousness. I normally proof read before I post, but I can't run through it again just yet ... hopefully some of this makes sense ... the take away: This group isn't focused on woodworking enough for some users and seems to be lost in its way. BUT things are slow all over, too, so i don't attribute all of the slowdown here to the above, i think it's just a lull all around, too.
 
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