dowels or biscuits

So I need some advice:

I'm gluing up some boards to make 10" wide book shelves. I tried a few boards without anything for alignment, and it worked okay, but not perfect. I have one of those self-centering doweling jigs that I've never used. Should I use that or should I bite the bullet and invest in a biscuit joiner? Not the lamello--I was thinking of the Porter Cable. I have 72 shelves to make.....or about 30' of built-in bookcases. One of the esteemed woodworkers on this forum once told me to ask myself what my 10-year plan is before buying power tools or machines. I anticipate lots of built-in cabinets in the 10 years to come. All comments welcome.
 
Technically, gluing boards together to make a wider panel is as strong as you need. Saying that, I've used a ton of biscuits over the years to help keep boards aligned when I glue them up. One of the first tools I added when I started making furniture was a DeWalt plate joiner and it's still a go-to item at times, although I'm tapering off of larger projects. Anytime I have to make up a panel from narrow boards, I grab my DW and a box of biscuits.
 
make or buy some cauls.
glueing up boards to 10 inches wide shouldn't be a problem without biscuits.
carefully use the cauls and clamps and you should get beautiful glue ups.
 
I agree with both Bill and Allen.

When I was starting to build furniture gluing up panels terrified me; I got the Porter Cable biscuit cutter (the best for the money), and it gave me confidence to do a lot.

As I gained confidence and experience, I use it less and less - it does not add strength to the joint, but does help with alignment. My current project is a large dining room table - each half roughly 4 x 4 feet, with five leaves each 4 x 2 feet. All from solid lumber, and I haven't use a biscuit yet. (Total 72 square feet)
 
I have both a biscuit joiner and Festool Domino, but for that kind of glue up would probably just use cauls unless you are short on clamps.
 
Buy some cauls first, if you don't want to make them. In the long run, much less expensive and much more forgiving. I have had both the Porter Cable and now the DeWalt tool. Had a hard time getting rid of the Porter Cable. Piece of "I can't say that here." DeWalt tool rarely comes out of the case. A good set of cauls will make you a happy camper for the next ten years and beyond.
 
Hi Cynthia good to see you around and still doing wwing. I have just completed some panel glue ups although very short and i have the pc biscuit joiner and did not use it.
Here is my view of the biscuit issue.

I have yet to have cut and used a biscuit where the resultant fit has meant i obtain the alignment possible prior to biscuiting.
So it really depends on what people think of as "alignment".
I found there are at least two types of actual biscuits one seems to be cut from thin ply and another that seems to have been cut and compressed its surface more " open" pores that allow the wooden biscuit to swell when glue hits it.
So my findings have been the slot cut by the biscuit cutter left quite a bit of slop meaning alignment was not what can be achieved with cauls pressing a board flat.
There is no strength gain as boards used in a panel are usually cut with the grain and thus the resultant glue up is normally stronger than the wood itself.
I still for some unknown logic use biscuits from time to time.

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Seeing as we are defining the merits of these plate joiners/biscuit cutters, Would you please, Carol, Charlie, Bill, could you expound on your feelings about using these tools, or not liking them for me? What were their faults and what were their good points?

I can see the points made for using cauls, but I never have had any yet. I would appreciate all your input. Thanks much.

Aloha, Tony
 
Thanks, Rob. We must have been typing at the same time. Your input is what I am looking for. I do also want to know what particular faults biscuit cutters have, and or have in common. Thank you all again.
 
If you are exploring joining methods and equipment with a view toward long term versatility, consider also the Domino. It essentially gives you a floating mortise and tennon that can be tight fitting or loose (machine adjustable laterally), as you choose. You don't have the slop and joint strength weakness inherent with biscuits and the range of available domino sizes beats the heck out of dowels. You can also make your own dominoes with a round over bit on the router table, giving you the option of exotic woods and visible joinery. A pricy option, but if you amortize it over your ten year plan, not so bad.
 
I use my biscuit cutter to make slots for Z shaped table top holders. I can slot an entire table in less than a minute, unlike using the router where I have to move much slower.
 
To throw out another option, I have seen routers used to cut biscuit joints. If your looking for an excuse to buy a tool, this doesn't help. If your not sure if you would like it, this might. It will be slower but you can decide if you like them without having to borrow one then. (borrowing one is another option, if you have someone local)
 
Should I use that or should I bite the bullet and invest in a biscuit joiner?

NO - don't.

I have the PC-557 - and have often thought about selling it.

It does help - a tiny bit - on alignment - sometimes is more in the way.

For edge to edge gluing it does absolutely nothing in the way of added strength.

For alignment - I can align through a little patience better than biscuits.

For end to end - or end to edge - biscuits are not enough - real splines are better.

One place I have found biscuits to be helpful is in face frame to carcase - but that is marginal help.

I agree - cauls would be a better choice on large glueups.

My Biscuit joiner has been in the case in the cabinet.
I don't remember the last time I used it - more than 7 years ago.
I have done 12-15 glueups in the same time.
 
My turn... :wave:

Can't argue with any of the people above talking about cauls, or that biscuits can still slip. But I have yet to see anyone discuss the issue of the dowels.

I have a dowelmax jig, and love it. I've also used the newer jessem dowelling jig, and it works well also.

The beauty of the dowelmax is that there is no slop at all. I've glued up a panel using that and the result is a perfectly flat surface, on the reference face (more on that later) and even a perfectly aligned end.

However, both of those dowel jigs reference off of one FACE of the board. That ensures that in the resulting joint, those faces are absolutely aligned. In contrast a self-centering dowel jig, which you mentioned, will put the dowels in the center. if there is any variation in the thickness of the panels then the result is a panel that may not be flat.
 
I have and regularly use my self centering dowel jig on larger glue ups. In my opinion it is much easier to align the edges accurately. I find that my biscuit jointer (freud) allows too much play between the biscuit and the slot and cauls are still needed to keep the parts even. My biscuit jointer is my second least used tool in my shop. Belt sander is the least used tool.

On any glue up less than about 5 feet long I use home made cauls.

I think it was Mike Henderson who did a tutorial on how to make them. You can search for it.
 
I have a self centering Dowel jig I have used a lot I also have gone the route of just glueing with cauls. both have worked equally well. When I took the course with Sam Maloof he showed us how to make chair seat out of 5 boards and he always used dowels. He actually had a setup with a horizontal drill press to drill the hole for the dowels.
 
For 10" wide shelves, I'd just use (flat and square) scrap wood as cauls. No need for fancy bowed cauls. Just a flat stick of wood...even 3/4" ply on edge. I made lots of cutting boards using scrap wood cauls wrapped in wax paper to prevent them from being glued to the workpiece. Biscuit joiners are nifty tools, but as has been mentioned, they don't necessarily ensure a perfectly flat glue-up. Since you're likely to need to sand or plane the workpiece after glue-up anyway, the biscuits are a waste of time and effort (in my opinion).
 
Thank you so much, everyone for the feedback. Newcomers to the board can see why this is such a helpful place.

Forgive me if I don't mention everyone by name. I guess I don't really *need* the biscuit joiner. I'll just use cauls. I watched a couple of youtube videos on them and saw one guy added a couple of playing cards in the center of the caul to add pressure in the center (if you want to avoid cambering them). The Festool thing is probably awesome, but I don't want to spend the money on that for the moment. I'll go with the dinosaur method. I might try to learn how to use the dowel jig if I'm not satisfied. In any case, I think I'll stop with the shelves and finish the trim first so I can put the room back together. It's been looking awful in the front room for a month now. I'll do the shelves last. Here are some photos just so you know I'm not fibbing. If I can use a Mt. Everest analogy (a good one in my case), I'm at Camp 4 in this adventure. I'll start asking questions about the molding in another thread.photo 2[2].JPG

photo 1[2].JPG. I seem to be having difficulty attaching these correctly. sorry.
 
no need for either. careful jointing and flattening of the boards and even application of the glue combined with good clamp pressure is more than sufficient. If your boards don't line up due to a bow then a trip back to the jointer is in order. be it on the horizontal or vertical. A good habit when gluing up panels and counters is as you are planning periodically check for flatness and keeping you jointer set to remove minimal stock, make your corrections along the way. This helps rid the board of tension and makes for a more stable piece. Glue ups should be a breeze at that point as everything will pretty much self align.
That said, when gluing panels that are wide and long I will many times glue them up in sections allowing the glue to set up for about 20 mins to a half hour then gluing the final piece and leaving it all to set.
Going back to biscuits vs doweling jigs... both serve a purpose. I find I rarely use my biscuit jointer except for applying a center stile on a cabinet where I cant use pocket screws. Also, I have used them in dry applications to set a scribe as I can run a few biscuits in the side of a cabinet and offset them on the stile to run my scribe without worry of the stile shifting.
With regards to the dowelling jig, Great tool!! I find I use mine far more often than when I first bought it and its been my go to before even thinking of biscuits.
Its great for adding dowels to stile and rail doors for added strength, making frames and wide miter joints. Table leaf alignment for the "bullets". I have found so many uses. Repairing old furniture where the existing dowel had broken, set the dowel jig and drill it out perfectly for the replacement dowel. And I find the dowel jig to be far more accurate than the biscuit jointer. with the jointer it only takes a slight shift in your stance to throw the joint out of alignment and its not noticeable until you are mid glue up.
Another thing with regards to biscuits, if you are going to go that route, if you set it for a #20 and use #10's it allows for a bit of lateral shift should you need that.
But all that said, nothing makes up for careful prep before the glue up.
 
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