looks like no heat for me in the shop

allen levine

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new york city burbs
Theres no gas lines in the garage as I first thought.

Id have to have a line run from my crawl space, cut up blacktop and dig a trench in yard, run the line into the back of the garage, and the cost of all of this might not be worth it, especially with the nosy neighbor most likely going to report me to the local authorities when he sees them working on it.

I torn, Im just waiting on a price for total job labor included.

In the past 6 years of me working with hardwoods, I only remember last winter being rough to be outside most of the days.

I don't need it 65 degrees, 50 is good enough, I can work in 45 degrees.

have to give it some thought until he calls me with price, he wants to do it right away as the ground will be frozen soon.
 
I'm sure you've already considered it, but is upgrading the electrical service out of the question? Gas heat is best, but electric heat is better than none.

Also, regarding the nosy neighbor, is there a reason you can't get a permit to have the gas work done? That way, when the nosy neighbor complains, you can tell him to go pound sand since you're not doing anything illegal.
 
In some states it is illegal for the homeowner to do their own gas work even IF you COULD get a permit.

Mass is one of those states. I dunno who voted that law in - but it was not me.

Though I have done plenty of gas work myself - I just don't like to and I hire it out. I feel better about it too.

If anything happens - THEY - are liable

If you do your own work in a place where it is illegal and there is any sort of problem - even unrelated to gas.............. Well, I will just say - I do NOT want to argue THAT case in court against the insurance company.

Having a licensed gas guy do it, and let they take the liability ---- SMALL, price to pay in my opinion.

So - dig the trench for the guy - and back fill the trench. Make the way easy for the installer - it will be less expensive that way.
 
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I'd consider the electric option also. Spend the extra to tighten up the walls and seal out the air flow where you can. Take for instance my shop's office. Took the time to insulate it and seal up the door/window well and the computer's power supply can keep it warm in there on the coldest of days, though I still have a space heater running on the lowest setting that kicks on time to time. Now when talking "heated" vs. "comfortable", depends on your tolerance, but could probably get where a couple of space heaters do the job if the heat isn't leaving the room. Second benefit to sealing it up and using electric is adding A/C for the summer when you need it.
 
leo, dig trenches?
My fingers look like I put them through a meat grinder, and that's only from doing lathe work the past few weeks.
My knee is holding on by a thread, my back is always bad, and I deal with a neuromuscular disorder daily.
Nah, if I went for this expense, let him worry about digging the trench, which has to go through my blacktop.

Upgrade electrical service?

I inquired about all that years ago when I wanted 220 out there.
My house is 100 amp service, as is all the homes in my area.
If you want 200 amp, you must file a variance, which costs a small fortune., Get it approved, and then Im sure the cost for the electrician would be high, and I don't think my current panel could handle an upgrade, not to mention the entire panel would have to be moved. a really, really big expense, and problem in my tiny home.
I ruled out electrical upgrading years ago.
I do not need the village inspecting my home and electrical service, they don't take kindly to garage workshops. Been there, don't that.

I had a tough winter last year, I hardly got any shop time in, it was a record breaking cold year last year, first time in the 8 years Ive been out there that I couldn't get much time in.
within 3 - 4 years, I will probably be spending my winters in a place like Arizona, Nevada, or new mexico, dry , and not so cold.

Im not sure how I want to go, as much as I want heat, I don't feel the expense is necessary for the little time I might be out there anyway at least this winter with my bad knee.

Its troubling me greatly. I usually make decisions quick and easy.
 
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if I cant hang it on the wall or ceiling, it aint gonna fit.
I have to bring my drum sander into the shop next week and I have to figure out what to move out to make enough space.
 
propane is expensive here. probably cost me 10 dollars a day to heat with propane.

its cruddy living in Nassau county if you want to have a nice hobby like woodworking.

if you don't have 200 amp service and enough land, its tough.

I know a lot of contractors and people who like to play with machines, and they all have the mishmash garage tool assortment, and do most of their work outdoors on their driveways during the warmer months.
I know one guy who does scroll work and band saw work, he works in his basement.
 
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Allen, it seems to me you're overthinking this. I haven't seen your garage, other than a few pictures and your description. A couple of hundred dollars of insulating and weatherstripping would go a long ways. Then one or two small space heaters would keep you in the comfort zone and keep stuff from freezing on the coldest nights. They just run on 110v. What's the coldest it gets there, really?
If using small space heaters, get a good quality one, of course and place them away from combustibles.
Basically, what Darren said.
 
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Here is what is running right now in the motor home. Ran out of propane last night and it went down to 54º inside! Can't get propane until Wednesday so I am running two of these little heaters - one by my desk and one in the bedroom for a bit each night and again in the morning to help keep from chipping icicles off my nose!

heater.jpg

Home Depot, less than $30 a couple of years ago. Fortunately my coach is rather well insulated for what it is. Insulating the dickens out of your shop will be a selling point when you venture to warmer climes after you wife retires. Win-win! Now and then! No permits, nosy neighbor can go pound sand as Vaughn suggested. Couple hundred bucks and you are golden. That much money is necessary if you could heat your shop with either gas or electric.
 
Allen,
Don't know how cold it actually gets where you are, but in my shop I run a single oil type radiator heater.. runs on 110v and by sitting it fairly close to me I get maximum heat around me... the rest of the shop may be cold, but I'm reasonable comfortable - until my feet get cold, then I quit.

My shop is a free standing corrugated metal building, not insulated, only has pegboard on the walls, bare metal in the roof/ceiling with a plywood floor raised about 2 feet on one end and less than a foot at the other end and no skirt around the bottom. We got down to about 35 deg a couple days back and my little heater kept me relatively comfortable for as long as I wanted to work... as has been suggested, try the little electric space heaters... you can get them with a fan that blows the heat towards you... might work.
 
I think it's a tough situation.

Small space to work in

Physical health issue

Lack of revenue

BUT - HUGE ambition and desire.

I feel for you.

I think about it a lot because I have a relatively large place to work with external storage places. When I retire - my revenue stream is going to nearly disapear. Not sure what I will be able to do.

I have seen people in apartments be functional woodworkers - but they do not build furniture, or cabinets.

I have seen workshops that are nothing more than a fold down closet workshop in a kitchen.

Maybe you need to rethink and reorganize based on your physical and financial abilities.
Then rearrange your hopes and ambitions
After that reorganize your shop to whatever fits into your lifestyle.
This is something I am thinking about a lot lately as I get closer to retirement.
I have about 10 or so years to plan on it - but it sounds like you are a lot closer to that place.
 
leo, Im sorry you might have missed one point, financially its not an issue.
Im at the point, do I really want to put 2000 into something that I thought would run me 500 dollars?

I purchase what I want when I want, but I try to make sensible and smart decisions.



Today, Im out there in a tee shirt working. tomorrow they are expecting snow.

chuck, that is exactly what Ive been using for 5 years, the oil filled electric radiator and I have an overhead heater that blows warm air to one area, which I always have set in the middle of the shop.
I work underneath it in the really cold weather, keeps my hands warm, and gives me an extra hour or so before I just cant take the cold.
being overweight, I never had a problem with the cold, once I start moving, even my hands and feet are fine.
I didn't realize this myasthenia crap makes one intolerable to cold or heat. Ill just deal with it for now.
If I remember, and put the oil radiator on at 7 am, by 10 am, it raises temps enough when its not extremely cold and windy out there.

I visit shops, like larry and jim, and think to myself, it must be nice to be able to come out 365 days a year if one wants to.

I think I might have been much more gung ho 6 years ago if I knew Id be at it so much.

I haven't heard from the guy yet, I want to see his total price.

eh, Im complaining here too much. everyone has their own problems, health, money, space, cold, hot, the list goes on.
 
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How about an electric powered snuggie? Kidding of course!! Don't need to hear about the sleeve getting caught in the lathe or any other tool. But as Chuck suggested, look at it from the perspective of what you want to keep warm. Echoing that sealing and insulating makes that task much easier. For me, cold is a lot more tolerable than warm with a cold draft tickling away.
 
I'd pay $10 to see a pic of Allen in an electric Snuggie! Heck, I'd pay $9.95 to see him in the non-electric model. :D
 
Allen, looking back at your shop thread, it looks like you did add some drywall, did you insulate under it? Whether you did or not, just covering and taping the joints like you did should sealed out the air flow on the walls, just won't leak heat out as fast. Looks like the ceiling/rafters are still open, so consider insulating where you can and a space heater would most likely do the job. Probably not that expensive to have someone come and do the insulation job (in comparison to a plumber).

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?15039-Garage-shop-rearrangement/page37
 
Not sure if you remember seeing mine but I have the Mr Heater, mhu45, hanging from the ceiling. Its 45k btu's and heats this 30x30 shop with no problem at all. I do have natural gas but a friend has the same one with propane. He does not use much propane at all and with your shop it would heat very quickly. Seems like a good option, only need to turn it on a few minutes before you want to work. Theres no standing pilot so it only uses gas when its heating. Be carefull with the electric heaters, they work well but draw a lot of electric and from what you said you dont have a lot to spare out there. You dont want to be popping breakers every time you fire up a saw. I think mine ran around 400.00.
 
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