I Think I Found the Problem

Vaughn McMillan

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Got a call from my sister Saturday asking if I could go over fix her kitchen ceiling light. It had stopped working a few weeks ago, and she was getting tired of cooking in semi-darkness. My brother-in-law was no help; he doesn't "do electrical". He's afraid of working on anything he can't see. (I keep telling him you can see electricity...just stick your finger in a hot light socket and you'll see all kinds of electricity.) :D

So I grabbed my meter and a couple of screwdrivers and went over to my sis's house. A couple of quick checks showed there was no power to the bulb sockets, so I turned off the switch and loosened the fixture so I could see if there was power to the fixture. I gently pulled it down from the ceiling, with the wires still attached. I could tell things weren't right when all the other lights in the kitchen started to flicker. I froze in my tracks and hollered to my BIL to go kill the power at the breaker. After a quick glance, I'm pretty sure I spotted the problem. I didn't have the presence of mind to take any pics of everything in place, but here's the aftermath of what I found:

The cremains of one of the wire nuts:

Wire Nut 1 - 800.jpg

The fiberglass insulation between the fixture and the ceiling...where the wiring had been laying:

Insulation 1 - 800.jpg

The light fixture had stopped working a few weeks ago after one of the light fixture leads had melted and became disconnected. No telling how long it had been heating up each time the light was turned on. The house has aluminum wiring, and much of it was done by a previous owner who had no clue what he was doing. The melted lead was originally attached to a pair of solid aluminum wires that had been stripped of their insulation about 3", then twisted together and wrapped with electrical tape. (The tape, of course, was fried by the time I found it.) I'm no expert, but I don't think that's the way it's supposed to be done. :rolleyes:

I have virtually no experience with aluminum wiring, so at that point I told my sis and BIL that their problem was outside my level of expertise and that they needed to call in a pro who knows how to deal with aluminum to copper connections. Fortunately, one of their family friends is a journeyman licensed electrician who's willing to come take care of it for the cost of materials and a good meal. :thumb:

We spent the rest of the afternoon marveling at the fact that they had truly dodged a bullet, and how fortunate they were that their house hadn't burned down a few weeks ago.
 
Dodged a bullet is right! They owe you big time for finding that. I had to look a few times before convincing myself there wasn't a fried little mouse with a red hat in that first picture.
 
Yikes!! I've, thankfully, never encountered existing aluminum wire. Good call on recommending a professional and knowing your limits. The holidays are likely to be extra sweet for them this year!!
 
I HATE(!) aluminum wiring. We had it in a house in Tustin, CA, and it was very problematic. I did learn - via an electrician friend - that it could be connected to copper, if you used the right stuff. Home Depot in Tustin sold special (purple) wire nuts that had 'No AlOx' compound in them. You were supposed to clean the aluminum wire very carefully, then twist the Al & Cu wires together then insert them into the wire nut. I used a couple of them, and they seemed to work okay.

The only truly 'approved method' was (is?) via 'pigtailing' which used a special splice and hydraulic crimper to make the Al/Cu connection. I was quoted $25.00 per switch or outlet to do that (back about 1995) and my house had over 60 switches and outlets. Cheaper than a total re-wire, but the pigtailing company wouldn't guarantee their work beyond a year, though.
 
...The only truly 'approved method' was (is?) via 'pigtailing' which used a special splice and hydraulic crimper to make the Al/Cu connection. I was quoted $25.00 per switch or outlet to do that (back about 1995) and my house had over 60 switches and outlets. Cheaper than a total re-wire, but the pigtailing company wouldn't guarantee their work beyond a year, though.

When my sis and BIL moved into this house, they pigtailed all of the outlets, but none of the fixtures. They're now a bit worried (rightly so, in my opinion) about the integrity of the pigtailed splices.
 
Rented out my in-laws home in early 60s there in Albuquerque and had same problem with aluminum wiring.
I do know we fought that for awhile and ending up going through every watch, plugin, fixture in the house.
Solved the problem till house sold. Thank goodness no fires or shorts.
David
K
 
Yikes, good thing you caught it. Hopefully they'll have the rest of them checked as well. Have a friend that has to deal with that on his place, not fun stuff to mess with.
 
Electrolysis between two different metals (and other stuff on the Periodic Table) can be a real Boon or a real Boo. There are a tremendous number of positive things we have today because of that. On the other hand a stupid electrician fastened our copper plumbing down with a couple steel brackets. 15 years later we started getting extremely fine holes in the water lines.

The extremely fine holes continuously sprayed water out until there were quite a few gallons and the drywall would give way and we would have a $1,000 flood repair bill. After the 3rd time we completely replaced all water plumbing---Approximately $7,000 was paid by the insurance company plus a heck of a lot more was paid by the Bradley family as I remember. All because an electrician was too lazy to go back to his truck to get a couple $0.20 copper pipe holders.

On the positive side for electrolysis, there are almost no mechanical devices we use today that would be here if it were not for electrolysis. Two very simple examples: batteries and electroplating.

Enjoy,
JimB
 
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Cool save Vaughn well done. But if i were them i would be having the house rewired. Especially when you say previous owner was messing with it and this is only one part you have found. Makes one think of what is in the building that's hidden in junction boxes etc waiting to cause a fire.

Like Jim aluminum wire is a no no to me. Great many lessons in your story. :thumb:
 
...if i were them i would be having the house rewired. Especially when you say previous owner was messing with it and this is only one part you have found. Makes one think of what is in the building that's hidden in junction boxes etc waiting to cause a fire...

I suspect they're going to be seriously considering a rewiring job. They've known about the potential problems since they bought the house. In fact, we've all known the wiring in this house was wonky since before they bought it, since it was owned by my parents for about 10 years before my sis and BIL bought it. The owner before my mom and dad added on to the building, and did some...um...creative things with the electricity. There is no order or logic to what circuit breakers control what. There are questionable outlets in odd places. There are mystery light switches that apparently control nothing. Total replacement would be the best solution.

My BIL is notoriously frugal with money, but this event might have caught his attention and loosened the purse strings a bit. ;)
 
...The owner before my mom and dad added on to the building, and did some...um...creative things with the electricity. There is no order or logic to what circuit breakers control what. There are questionable outlets in odd places. There are mystery light switches that apparently control nothing... ;)

Some of those 'mystery switches' could be non-working because the wiring they're connected to is burnt off. Also, the creative wiring sets off an alarm for me. I wonder how many junction boxes and Al/Cu splices that you don't know about are behind walls and in attics.

Tel BIL he needs to dust off the wallet, bite the bullet, and pay to have the place totally rewired. Would be a good time to upgrade the panel and meter socket at the same time - like maybe a single panel instead of a main and close-by subs. (if that's the case)
 
Some of those 'mystery switches' could be non-working because the wiring they're connected to is burnt off. Also, the creative wiring sets off an alarm for me. I wonder how many junction boxes and Al/Cu splices that you don't know about are behind walls and in attics.

Tel BIL he needs to dust off the wallet, bite the bullet, and pay to have the place totally rewired. Would be a good time to upgrade the panel and meter socket at the same time - like maybe a single panel instead of a main and close-by subs. (if that's the case)

Agreed! :yes:
 
The main floor of my bungalow is aluminum wired. The basement, having been finished after it was no longer legal to sell aluminum wiring in Canada, is copper. I recently started on a project of replacing all the older switches and sockets in my house with the newer rectangular ones. This is easy in the basement, as the only things with aluminum wire are the dryer and washer outlet, and I just let them alone. Upstairs, I had to make copper pigtails for the new switches and sockets and then join them to the aluminum with these purple Marrettes that are filled with a compound that prevents corrosion between the two. It's such a PITA that I still have two bedrooms left to do.

Aluminum wiring is found in most Canadian homes that were built in the mid 70s. This is the second one I have lived in. We are having some insurance work done just now as a result of a dishwasher malfunction. My son tells me that if the insurance contractor discovers aluminum wire in the course of his work, he will have to replace it. That's fine with me. We are already getting some overdue basement upgrades because of about 10 litres of water that leaked out of the d/w. The repairs could come close to $20,000.
 
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Good catch Vaughn!

When we were first stationed in Meridian, MS, we lived in a mobile home in a mobile home park a few miles outside the NAS. Wired with aluminum wire, in the evenings, watching television, I could see outlets sparking. I would tighten those up and a few weeks later find another one.

6 months after we finally got into base house, that trailer burned down......caused by an electrical fire. Luckily, nobody was injured.

I don't do aluminum wiring. I paid dearly for copper through out.
 
Yes, places like in behind the breakers, and other things hidden in the attic and walls all are probably in the same dangerous condition.

Look at the cost of having the new wires pulled as an investment in the house to increase its desirability, possibly value, and safety.

Maybe it will lower the fire insurance???
 
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