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Thread: Target EM600o questions...h..e...l..p..please

  1. #1
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    Target EM600o questions...h..e...l..p..please

    So i am in the process of the finishing of my Bandsaw sleighs.

    Have done the following. Sanded to 320 then hit the sleigh with target finish. Then let dry then hit it again.

    I have a ton of questions... please keep in mind i am total rookie to this whole process.

    So how much finish to apply in single spray ? Do go on till i see the "purple" in the finish or is that too far for one coat.

    How do you clean your work after sanding. I have been wiping down with paper towel and healthy wetting of acetone is that ok ?

    When i do "wet" the wood with the acetone, i shows the color and grain wonderfully, duh i guess because its so thin and can penetrate easily

    But i have not got that same pop with the EM6000 should i thin it out with some distilled water to try help it penetrate.

    I am using sheen not gloss.

    Then how long do i wait to call it dry enough to sand it down again? I am spraying in doors in my own homemade spray booth temp is around 70.

    My wood mix on the sleigh is maple for skids and mahogany for the upper sleigh, i am thinking of putting a bit of stain into the mix to tone it up a bit more redish. I have done this before with enduro also water based, and mixed in General water based stains http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...at=1,190,42942
    will these be ok on the EM6000?

    With your past experience do you think this would help pop the piece a bit more.

    I have mixed feelings about the satin finish. Wish i had purchased gloss. On end grain (ends of sleigh) looks a bit "like a plastic film"

    I mean its nice and smooth and sheen but not doing the wood justice by comparison to a wetting with acetone.

    Any advice and suggestions welcome I am out on a limb here with time a closing in on me. Thanks.
    cheers

  2. #2
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    Rob. Rob. Rob. Its the 24th of December. Unless these are going to other woodworkers, only you know about popping a piece of wood. Let them dry. They're 'nice and smooth'. Hand them out. Move on. Let go, my friend. Enjoy the season.
    ++++++

    Some say the land of milk and honey; others say the land of fruits and nuts. All together my sort of heaven.

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    Carol Reed

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carol Reed View Post
    Rob. Rob. Rob. Its the 24th of December. Unless these are going to other woodworkers, only you know about popping a piece of wood. Let them dry. They're 'nice and smooth'. Hand them out. Move on. Let go, my friend. Enjoy the season.


    And in my limited experience, no water-based finish will pop wood figure like a solvent wash or an oil finish. I'd say run with what you've got and call it a day. I'm sure they look great.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

    workingwoods.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Hi Rob,

    I've used EM6000 a few times and will be spraying a few more coats when I get home in a little bit.

    So how much finish to apply in single spray ? Do go on till i see the "purple" in the finish or is that too far for one coat.
    I spray enough to get the piece wet. I try to stop just before I see the bluish tint to avoid drips, although EM6000 levels very well.

    How do you clean your work after sanding. I have been wiping down with paper towel and healthy wetting of acetone is that ok ?
    It's recommended to use 1/2 water and 1/2 DNA to wipe down after sanding.


    Then how long do i wait to call it dry enough to sand it down again? I am spraying in doors in my own homemade spray booth temp is around 70.
    Drying time is about 20-30 minutes, then you can re-coat.

    My wood mix on the sleigh is maple for skids and mahogany for the upper sleigh, i am thinking of putting a bit of stain into the mix to tone it up a bit more redish. I have done this before with enduro also water based, and mixed in General water based stains http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...at=1,190,42942
    will these be ok on the EM6000?

    With your past experience do you think this would help pop the piece a bit more.
    To pop the grain I usually put down a coat or 2 of shellac. I like using Target's water based because I can spray it without blowing up my shop, but regular alcohol based de-waxed shellac should be fine to do this as well. I've not tried tinting it (yet), but have read that it's OK to do so using Transtint dye. I wouldn't thin it out.

    Good luck!

  5. #5
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    I'm with Carol...it's the 24th and it may be best to go with what you've got. But some observations: I've never seen a waterborne finish "pop" the grain as an oil based finish will. One of the strengths of a waterborne (to me) is that it's water clear and doesn't change the wood. Anyway, I've always done something else first to pop the grain. That could be BLO (like on walnut) or just shellac (on lighter colored woods). Using BLO under a waterborne means it has to be pretty much cured before top coating, I usually wait 6-7 days. Shellac is amore immediate, you could top coat it within a couple of hours. Thinning waterbornes is best done with great care to follow the manufacturers instructions, too much and you can upset the chemistry....most of them I've used (including a predecessor to EM6000) calls for no more than 15% or so, some are less than that. As for coat thickness, too thick and you get runs and sags. Best to apply thinner coats and lay down more of them to build the finish. If those stains worked mixed with the Enduro Var, they should do just as well with the EM6000. At their heart, waterborne finishes are quite similar. But I think this and other opinions that will be offered will only be if use later; you probably need to move on with what you have at this point.

  6. #6
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    Analysis-to-Paralysis . . . For gifts going out tonight or tomorrow, I always turn to shellac; dries to touch in about 30 minutes, OK to wrap a few hours later.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C. Clarke

  7. #7
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    I use a 1.2mm tip on an HVLP sprayer, and shoot EM6000 straight from the can. If you must thin it, read the can. It says it can be thinned 5%.

    Lester's advice pretty much covers the coverage, sanding, and curing - except that, unless you have big lumps of dirt/dust in it, or you wait more than overnight, there's no need to sand between coats.

    EM6000 'burns in.' That is, it melts/blends into previous coats to make a sort of 'single layer' finish.

    I've never used anything but the gloss stuff. The satin or matte stuff has flattening agents (like talc) in them, and they need to be stirred frequently to keep the flattening agents in suspension. I think those agents reduce the clarity, to, so if I want a satin or matte finish, I buff/scuff the cured finish with steel wool or an abrasive pad.
    Jim D.
    Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!

  8. #8
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    Go home ! LOL
    I dream a lot. I do more painting when I'm not painting. It's in the subconscious.
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    colonialrestorationstudio.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    EM6000 does not do a good job of popping the grain. I use EM1000 sanding sealer for that. In my tests 1000 is as good as solvent sealer or Shellac.

    Do not use a large amount of Zinsser Seal coat de-waxed shellac - they made their canned shellac slightly acidic to help the shelf life, but the acid can interfere with the alkaline Target EM6000. I have not had a problem with light coats of Zinsser but some friends have had trouble when using heavier coats of the shellac.

    The recommended tack rag for water base finish is 50% DNA 50% water. I keep it in a spray bottle, and mist a rag; not a wet wipe down, and certainly not anything stronger.

    If you see the milky color on the work piece you are just over the limit - allow extra dry time, but you will be fine. Use slightly less next time. EM6000 burns in so well that multiple thin coats work fine - better than heavy coats.

    You can add Transtint dyes to the Target coatings. Best added in the first coat(s), since a toner in the final coats isn't considered as good a finish. I just add a few drops to the spray gun and go. If I need it lighter, just do a light coat. If you want it darker, spray a couple times. With thin coats you can go over it in 5-10 minutes.

    I rarely use anything but gloss, since I can cut the sheen easily with synthetic steel wool or fine sandpaper (600-4000 grit). You can leave the grunge in the bottom of the can and decant the liquid which is then gloss or close to it, depending on how much the grunge has settled and how well you decant it.

    Since you are using a good film finish, it will hide most sanding scratches. I often stop at 150-180 when applying a film finish.

    See www.solowoodworker.com/wood/targetcoatings.html for my comparison of the target products
    Last edited by Charlie Plesums; 12-24-2014 at 07:30 PM.
    Charlie Plesums, Austin Texas
    (Retired early to become a custom furnituremaker)
    Lots of my free advice at www.solowoodworker.com

  10. #10
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    Thanks to those who have offered advice on the finish. I appreciate the input. I guess had i had some prior experience with the satin i would have rather gone for the gloss now that hear how they dull it down. BUt we live and learn.

    Just for those thinking all gifts for Xmas get given on Christmas day ...well ya all mistaken. Some of these will only go to recipients in late Jan. Some in early Jan most just before New Years eve so in future try read the question and offer some of your experience other than a non helpful comment.

    I am making 12 of these sleighs I asked the questions not because i have not got any finished but because i wish to learn. I wish to use some of them to practice on but first asked what i did not know.

    I thought that was what this forum was all about....no stupid questions i was told many times over.

    Seems to me we losing our way when we assume we know everything.

    So my sincere thanks to those who responded with input I am set up to spray and will experiment with your input.

    Merry Christmas all.
    cheers

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