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Rob Keeble

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Well i am back on to turning couch legs.

But given my first attempt I realised i needed to refresh my turning knowledge before just going at it. This is what happens i find when one does not perform a particular operation frequently enough, in my case between the effect of memory fade as i get older and frequency of getting to do woodworking, I go through this each time i get going. ( gets stale fast but what to do:doh:)

So i watched

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMIwqFDMIhA

This as one of the videos i am using to get back into my head how to use the various chisels.

This has resulted in a memory jog of a question that i have long wanted to ask but keep forgetting to.

So here goes.


This tool i notice is most often made from rectangular bar stock. Yet when presented to the piece of wood to be turned is expected to be tilted when rested on the toolrest as Brendan says to an angle of 45* .
That says the tool is running on the toolrest along the corner formed between the short side and the wide side of the rectangle of bar stock.

Why has that not been ground flat by turners to essentially provide a greater contact area on the tool rest and more stable deliberate presentation angle.

Surely this would prevent incorrect presentation of this tools cutting edge?

My next question is are there any modifications you guys do to your skew chisels.

And my last question (for now :rofl:) is what is the correct or most suitable angle that the whole cutting edge should be both in terms of the two intersection sides (angle 1 in my sketch)making the cutting edge and the overall angle of that edge in taken off the sides of the chisel angle 2 in my sketch.

skew chisel edge.jpg
 
Rob, Im pretty sure if you ask three turners a skew question you'll get at least six different answers, and all of them will be correct.

As to your first question - why not grind a flat at 45º to make finding the presentation angle easier - when cutting beads and coves with the skew, you will be rotating the tool and changing that angle constantly. A flat would get in the way. A lot of folks round over the edge of the skew (essentially a bullnose profile) to make that rotational movement easier and smoother.

As to the correct sharpening angle and the the angle for the skewed cutting edge, that's largely a personal preference thing that varies from turner to turner. I'd suggest watching a few videos, then do some experimenting on your own to see what works best for you.

Lastly, of all the turning tools, it's my opinion that the skew is the one that requires the most practice to become proficient in its use. I still haven't put in sufficient practice time, so for turning spindle projects like a set of couch legs, I'd be using gouges instead of skews, because that's what I handle the best.
 
There are some chisels that have rounded sides or are oval in profile, in practice I don't think they are significantly easier to use though since primarily you use the skew off of the bevel so the rounded sides don't help as much as you'd think since that isn't the main support point anyway. If the edges are really square I could see easing them for comfort.

What does help is using the biggest skew you feel comfortable holding since the sweet spot is a lot larger and you have a bigger reference plane to see the angle. Grinding the cutting edge to have a bit of a curve helps when starting as well because it moves that annoying heel out of the way so you get fewer spiral catches. Also raise the tool rest higher than you would for most chisels. Finally sharpen it up good, IMHO the skew is one of the few lathe tools where the grinder isn't sufficient and I prefer loosing a bit of the hollow grind as well since the flatter surface provides better support.
 
I'd also add that, again IMHO, time spent learning the skew is well worth it as it helped me a lot with the other chisels and understanding how the edge approaches the wood. The skew is simultaneously both one of the simplest chisels and the hardest to use and in that intersection is a great learning experience :D
 
Ed Thomas said:
I find these are best for large coves and balls. Henry Taylor Forged Gouge at LV Edit: mine is sharpened much more acutely. :D

Feel free to come down and try it out.
Click to expand...

Those are great gouges, but for a bit less money you can get Thompson spindle gouges made of cryogenically treated powdered metal that'll hold an edge much longer. Either way, Rob, you should take Ed up on his generous offer. :thumb:
 
Rob Keeble said:
Well i am back on to turning couch legs.

So here goes.


This tool i notice is most often made from rectangular bar stock. Yet when presented to the piece of wood to be turned is expected to be tilted when rested on the toolrest as Brendan says to an angle of 45* .
That says the tool is running on the toolrest along the corner formed between the short side and the wide side of the rectangle of bar stock.
My understanding... the cutting edge is at a 45* angle to the wood. The angle across the width is about 70* and a normal stance with the tool at your side puts the cutting edge about 45* to the wood.

Why has that not been ground flat by turners to essentially provide a greater contact area on the tool rest and more stable deliberate presentation angle.

The 45* is not up from the tool rest, the cutting edge can be 45* to the wood and the entire width of the blade flat on the rest. Most turners round over the "short" or heel" edge of the blade to allow for fluid rotation. If left square it is easy to get a dig in which dings up your tool rest. The "long or toe" side of the blade is usually give only a slight curve on each side rather than fully rounded; this leave a flat between the curves to resister for V cuts or others such.

Surely this would prevent incorrect presentation of this tools cutting edge?

My next question is are there any modifications you guys do to your skew chisels.
I did fully round the short side, and ease the corners on the long side. Makes rotation easier and doesn't mess up the tool rest.

And my last question (for now :rofl:) is what is the correct or most suitable angle that the whole cutting edge should be both in terms of the two intersection sides (angle 1 in my sketch)making the cutting edge and the overall angle of that edge in taken off the sides of the chisel angle 2 in my sketch.
I don't think this is what you mean but the bevel is typically 40* combined or 20* per side. I'm not sure I understand your pic.

As the video shows it should contact the wood about 45*. Given the width tool angle of about 70* if would be 70* to the wood if perpendicular (90*) to the rest; so the entire tool must approach the rest at about 65*.



View attachment 88318
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Thank you very much guys and gal .

Carol John Lucas is very good explaining. Thanks

And Vaughn thanks for the advice, you always tell me stuff i so badly need to hear. Nothing beats getting out and doing it. And i wholeheartedly agree the skew is not the tool i need to use to turn those legs.

Well i got the strapping/webbing done this afternoon with the help of the lineman. :) Comes in handy to have muscle around to tug on elastic webbing.

@ Ed I will definitely take you up on your offer. Been long overdue for a visit and i could seriously do with some one on one instruction at the lathe. Just hope i dont get hooked on that beauty of a machine you got. I know i will be making a trip to LV after being with you. Check your pms Ed. Thanks very much for offering.
 
Coming late to the discussion, Rob, but I have mostly been using the LV economy gouges. I have the 1" oval skew from this set, and have had some success in using it. I find it excellent for getting a smooth surface on a straight spindle, but have only had a little practice with beads. Keep the tool on the wood at about 1/3 of the way from the lower angle, and keep a close eye on that, as it will take off if you catch the wood with the lower corner. I sharpen mine on a set of waterstones, just like a plane blade or paring chisel, which is important to their performance. BTW, these gouges are better than the name suggests, and are sharp enough to use out of the box. I did hone the skew before I used it, though.
 
I'm fond of the 45* angle on mine. I have a habit of leading with the toe...I was taught we walk toe first so should "Skew" that way.
 
Ed Thomas said:
Vaughn, have you used a forged gouge?
Click to expand...

Yes, a bit. Don't remember the brand, but it was a nice tool. And no knock intended on Henry Taylor tools. I've got a few, including my favorite skew. (And interestingly, I like my 3/4" Henry Taylor more than I like my 1 1/4" Thompson skew. But I'm not great with either, due to not putting in the time to learn them well.) I've just not seen anything that held an edge like the Thompson tools.
 
Side note, if I just wanted to get those ball ends done I'd probably use a bowl gouge. They turn corners nicely without a lot of fuss and no one said you could only use them on bowls.
 
Vaughn McMillan said:
Those are great gouges, but for a bit less money you can get Thompson spindle gouges made of cryogenically treated powdered metal that'll hold an edge much longer.
Click to expand...

Yabutt I consider a forged spindle gouge to be more 'skewy' than spindle. Sometimes when getting chatter on a long flat with a skew, a pass with the forged gouge and it's gone. I don't know if the cryo metals can be forged.

Vaughn McMillan said:
Yes, a bit. Don't remember the brand, but it was a nice tool. And no knock intended on Henry Taylor tools. I've got a few, including my favorite skew. (And interestingly, I like my 3/4" Henry Taylor more than I like my 1 1/4" Thompson skew. But I'm not great with either, due to not putting in the time to learn them well.) I've just not seen anything that held an edge like the Thompson tools.
Click to expand...

My favorite skew is also the HT 3/4. :) The big Thompson skew is on my wish list. I have a couple of Thompson 5/8 bowl gouges and they are the go-to tools for edge holding.
 
After watching numerous Skew videos and listening to other turners, I rounded the bottom (side with the short point) of my rectangular skew. I wish I had not. But not bad enough to regrind it square. My conclusion is to just use it as is (whether rectangular, oval, or rounded) and you will develop skill with the shape you have.
 
I like that video, I have 5 skews, 3 -1/2" and 2 - 1" I learned what i have been doing wrong, still trying to figure out why I keep getting chatters marks on the dense woods, when turning Strikers , maybe my angle.
 
Charlie Plesums said:
After watching numerous Skew videos and listening to other turners, I rounded the bottom (side with the short point) of my rectangular skew. I wish I had not. But not bad enough to regrind it square. My conclusion is to just use it as is (whether rectangular, oval, or rounded) and you will develop skill with the shape you have.
Click to expand...

Curious what you don't like about it Charlie?

I should probably qualify that the one I reground doesn't have just the bottom rounded its more of a continuous curve like a laid over ) shape and its not a real extreme curve either. This is on a 1 1/4" skew so its relatively large, its also what I primarily use for spindle details. Its slightly more annoying to sharpen since you have to sharpen around the curve but I personally found it much easier to get a handle on.

I also have a smaller 3/4" skew with a straighter edge more / shaped and struggled mightily with it when I got back into turning; picked it up again after a year or so of using the other skew and (after quickly honing it because it was not sharp enough which was likely originally part of the problem) it worked just dandy, although it was a wee bit grabbier than the curved one when turning beads. This basically supports your statement that once you learn how the tools should cut its about six of one, but I certainly felt like throwing the skew across the shop less when I started with the one with a little curve to it :D

Dave, the chatter marks can have a number of causes and I sure haven't eliminated them either. Basically something it causing the wood to bounce or vibrate a little and once they get started you pretty much have to get back "behind" them because otherwise they'll propagate themselves indefinitely, even a small bump can start leading to larger and larger ones so getting a "smooth start" helps a lot.

A few things I've found that help a bit are:
  • Definitely lighter "skim" cuts help, the deeper the cut the more the bounce when the tool comes out of the wood and the more "grab" also causes problems.
  • Try coming up off of the bevel a bit, sometimes it seems that the bounce propagates from further back in the tool or maybe coming up off of the bevel forces you to take a lighter cut - still haven't entirely figured out the mechanics. I'm seeing similar behavior with the bowl gouge if the bowl is a bit thin and bouncy as well. This is of course harder to control so you're more likely to have things go wrong. My experience with the skew is that the closer you are to disaster the cleaner the cut is :D
  • Speed up the lathe another notch - if nothing else this changes the sympathetic vibration rate and sometimes allows you to clean up a bit easier. If that doesn't work try slowing it down a notch :D
  • Raise the tool rest another smidge. I really prefer using the skew with the rest higher than feels "comfortable" or maybe that's "comforting" either way coming almost straight in on those skim cuts usually makes them cleaner.
 
I did like Charlie and round the heel end of my skew. Unlike Charlie I gave up and ground it back straight. I don't go back to the grinding wheel and only hone and I find it much easier to hone a flat surface. Alan Lacer, in his video, shows a curved blade but suggest new turners use a straight blade. I cut beads with the short point (heel) and also fine I know just where it is for some reason with a straight edge.

Like Ryan I plane much higher, tool rest about 10:30+ and cutting the wood about 11:30.
Along with a sharp tool, trying to put the pressure towards the headstock (or tailstock) helps to reduce flex causing chatter marks. On dense woods I find the cut has to be much finer or too much pressure may be applied causing the chatter.

In addition to the videos by Brenden, here is a similar one by Richard Raffan that may present some new points and some from a different perspective.
Richard also talks about a cause of chatter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOvF5f1phhY
 
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