Menu
What's new

Ned Bulken, where are you?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bob Gibson said:
I hope the guy whoever he is is just spouting bravado. For the little bit of money folks are out it would be stupid to end up being arrested or causing a scene.
At this point I've pretty much written things off. No big deal just another life lesson. I suggest other folks do the same.
If Ned pops in a reads this, If you need help fulfilling your orders I'm willing to help. Just let folks know what's going on in your life. Maybe we can help.
Click to expand...

I'm with Bob. :thumb:
 
Bob Gibson said:
...If Ned pops in a reads this, If you need help fulfilling your orders I'm willing to help. Just let folks know what's going on in your life. Maybe we can help.
Click to expand...

there's only a few small problems with this. one being the guy mentioned is out over a little over $100, and not something he's quite willing to write off. me, i'm out $10, so if i see him, i'll tell him his dog is ugly. but, if we go rushing to bail him out, we are only going to encourage such behavior in the future. if this happens, his backers get their boards (albeit not quite the boards they expected), he is then off the hook with them, and still has the $6700 they paid him for work that others have done for him to get him out of his self created hole.

i can see coming to the assistance of someone who needs help fulfilling orders that through no fault of their own (floods, fires, injuries, etc.), that is just the right thing to do, and i'd like to think that people around here would be hard pressed to say no.
 
Dan Noren said:
there's only a few small problems with this. one being the guy mentioned is out over a little over $100, and not something he's quite willing to write off. me, i'm out $10, so if i see him, i'll tell him his dog is ugly. but, if we go rushing to bail him out, we are only going to encourage such behavior in the future. if this happens, his backers get their boards (albeit not quite the boards they expected), he is then off the hook with them, and still has the $6700 they paid him for work that others have done for him to get him out of his self created hole.

i can see coming to the assistance of someone who needs help fulfilling orders that through no fault of their own (floods, fires, injuries, etc.), that is just the right thing to do, and i'd like to think that people around here would be hard pressed to say no.
Click to expand...

Yes, big picture thinking here.

The only help he needs is a shovel to help fill in the hole HE dug. If the person shows up to collect and he takes a beating, it is HIS beating to take. Not trying to be callous here, but he is a grown man and is responsible for his own actions. When I worked at the prison, I seen a lot of folks in there for doing less. He stole $6700 pure and simple. What if someone hijacked your credit card and got you got $6700, how would you feel. Yea he didn't get it all at once, he got it a little at a time, from different folks. Bernie Madoof did the same thing. A thief is a thief. Sorry to take this in that direction, but 6 months is long enough.
 
Dan Noren said:
i can see coming to the assistance of someone who needs help fulfilling orders that through no fault of their own (floods, fires, injuries, etc.), that is just the right thing to do, and i'd like to think that people around here would be hard pressed to say no.
Click to expand...

Based on my rough math, I've come to the conclusion that the smaller items (like the $10) would be tough to make and ship and come out much ahead. The larger/more expensive ones actually look a bit better until they start getting to big and heavy then the shipping gets a bit rough again.

I still stand by my belief that most folks would likely be willing to take a somewhat smaller reward if the math was laid out and the request was expressed as a request for help (certainly you'd have to figure enough would be willing to so as to not go in the hole and still fulfill the original goal). If this was laid out openly I reckon folks would be pretty willing to help out as well.

At this point I figure that this was a lesson learned on both sides of the equation. The stats on kickstarter fulfillment aren't all that great, but the odds of success on something relatively straightforward like this seemed worthy of helping out a fellow woodworker (we've thrown in for a few other projects that did succeed, mostly getting specialty books and the like published). The lesson is that IMHO the lack of communication was what really sunk the situation. At this point it's going to be fairly hard to regain general credibility with the backers and also, I reckon, the overall community.

At this point my main issue is concern that someone backed this project on my endorsement. Being out a bit of my money I can eat, someone else's doesn't sit right with me.. It's the difference between fiscal and moral responsibility (which is where I think Dan was heading above).

Whatever the reasons it's really unfortunate this ended up where it is.
 
I've been watching this for a long time, visited his FB page, visited Kickstarter, and have to say Steve's right! This is all now Ned's problem to fix and, sadly, it appears that his fix is to run away.
 
Steve Southwood said:
Yes, big picture thinking here.

The only help he needs is a shovel to help fill in the hole HE dug. If the person shows up to collect and he takes a beating, it is HIS beating to take. Not trying to be callous here, but he is a grown man and is responsible for his own actions. When I worked at the prison, I seen a lot of folks in there for doing less. He stole $6700 pure and simple. What if someone hijacked your credit card and got you got $6700, how would you feel. Yea he didn't get it all at once, he got it a little at a time, from different folks. Bernie Madoof did the same thing. A thief is a thief. Sorry to take this in that direction, but 6 months is long enough.
Click to expand...


In the beginning of this thread, I asked some questions, because I wasn't that sure what this entire kickstarter concept was.
It was steve, that posted if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything?
And at that point, although I didn't agree, I didn't post anything.


The thing is, Ned committed no crime, so all this nonsense I read on the kickstarter page about rico acts, and fraud....total nonsense.

People, , decided out of good faith to back someone, a total stranger, and chose to mail him money to fulfill an idea(promise?) he made to all of those who supported him.
There is no guarantee from what Ive read than any person who initiates a campaign on kickstarter will complete or succeed.

Ned failed to meet his obligation to his donors/pledges. It would have been nice if Ned just said, hey, I failed.
The electric work, the cost of machines, the material, the upgrades I needed, was just too much, Im sorry.

There is nothing anyone can do if he just admitted failure. There are no guarantees with a program like Kickstarter.

Some of the stuff I read over there, someone went as far as to post he will pay Ned a visit personally for a refund.

Who is a criminal? The guys sounds like he wants to assault ned over a failed project. He has no right and if the guy shows up on neds doorstep(I don't know how unless ned gave him his address), I hope the guy is locked up for acting so foolishly, what is he 9? childish behavior, Ill beat you up?

Ned didn't man up to the fact he failed in this endeavor, maybe its difficult for him to admit that publicly.
would that have sated all the supporters from kickstarter? who knows, they seem out for blood at this point, which is totally ridiculous.

Just because you have faith in people, and want to encourage people, doesn't mean they are that successful or dependable.

If ned would have manned up 4 or 5 months ago and asked a few people near him for some help, maybe this tidal wave of hatred would have subsided and perhaps some of the boards would have went out.

I don't see how 6700 less kickstarter fees and any other fees, could purchase equipment, supplies, wood, enough for 125 or more boards, and then pay for shipping?

Maybe its the supporters fault for financing a project that seemed too good to be true.

Get a huge 2ft by 20 inch(whatever size) end grain cutting board, shipped for 40 dollars, hand made, all quality hardwoods like cherry, walnut, etc.......really?
cherry and walnut at 5-7 dollars a square foot?
Glue at 9 dollars a bottle?
Clamps?
A 2 inch 20 x18 board is close to what 5 bf of wood? if all the wood is perfect. so that's around 25 or so dollars for wood, and at least, 10-14 dollars to ship something that size.(maybe my sizes are off, I don't remember what I read originally about the bigger boards and prices, but they seemed extremely low priced to me, which is ok, but not if it makes the project unreasonable) Throw in cost of sandpaper, and all the little things , Ned would be producing boards for 2 dollars an hour.(and I understand its not about profit to get your project off the ground, but hey, no one wants to work for a dollar an hour)
How come none of the supporters scrutinized this, and said, nope, sounds too good to be true, but IM WILLING TI TAKE A CHANCE AND SUPPORT THIS GUY

and obviously he has failed up until now to produce.

time to move on and forget it. He failed, your gamble failed. Be careful before you support anyone again on start ups.


having said all of this, I don't think what ned did is that nice, as up to this point.

He failed to realize the task was ridiculous, that it would be costly, too costly to maintain and fulfill at those prices.

And as of right now, he hasn't manned up to anyone, his supporters, or his friends on this board.
 
Last edited:
This time I agree with Allen. And most of the other posters. Gamblers do not always win and backing a start-up is gambling. There some good things out of this, however. The number of people who were/are willing to help Ned get himself out of this mess is incredible. It shows what a wonderful family this really is.

It also illustrates the necessity to think like a business professional if it is your intention to have a woodworking business (or any business). Run the numbers in the beginning. Run them often. Be realistic with costs. Don't base your selling price on what you think people will pay but rather on hard, cold facts of what things actually cost, what will be your resulting pay for your labor, and then decide if your proposal will have enough legs to see it through.

The saddest thing here is that Ned zipped through his credibility in a most public way. Frank is right. Ned will likely live in denial of his new reality.

For now, it is just :deadhorse:
 
Seems ned got some supporters throught contacts here? people that knew him from here?
that I don't know, but I know at least I think 2 posted somewhere they invested or some family member invested something.
again, faith in strangers doesn't always pan out the way you want it to.

and people here willing to help him at this point? foolish if you ask me. He hasn't offered any explanations to the failure of this project, making it easy for people to put a lousy label on him. And people here want to align themselves with someone who betrayed, for whatever reasons, (unless ofcourse, god forbid, ned is too ill to post his situation), so many fellow members here, people would connect themselves to get set up for more trouble then its worth?
sorry, again, just more poor decisions, and I understand wanting to help a family member out, but Ned is a internet family member, obviously, no one knows him that well, seems he hasn't responded to anyones requests for answers, so perhaps, just perhaps, he might bring on a little less deserving support because of his own actions.

and least we forget, this type of silence will silence support for others who want to use kickstarter for whatever woodworking projects they want to pursue in the future, people will really think twice now.

ok, enough, I cleared that off my chest.
 
This has turned out to be a sad situation all the way around. I don't know Ned, nor do I want to. However it appears from what I have read that a lot of people took advantage of what they thought was a good deal. Probably, as Carol said he didn't do his homework and soon found that he was off a high dive and didn't know how to swim, so he spent the money he had and went into hiding, hoping it would all go away. I can't feel sorry for him and I can't see why anyone else would.
If a person does this type a thing I don't think he feels any remorse at all. If he were making an effort to make the boards and ship them (even if it caused him to have to loose money) it would show that he is at least trying to fulfill a promise, or order whatever you might call it. I guess I'm trying to say, that a person has to earn respect, it is never given. I guess I am crazy but I don't think you spend money that you don't have. If I didn't have the space, the tools, materials, and the time to do something like this I would never even think about trying it. I think we all know that you have to have your ducks in a row to have a successful outcome. Ned evidently didn't know this.
Just my opinion.
 
imho, i think he would have been ok if he had only stuck to his original plan. he had what he was looking for raised within the first 3 days of the campaign. after that happened, he should have just rode it out until the 30 days were up, get the sander he originally was going to get (whole reason for the campaign), fulfill his commitments, and call it a day, another success story for kickstarter. he really didn't even need the sander to complete the boards, he could have glued them up, and taken them to any nearby cabinet shop (here it would cost me $35/hr with no limits on the number of boards), and have them sanded flush. after he expanded everything the way he did, and he knew that he couldn't meet his deadline, he went to his backers, and the ones that joined in after the original $1k was raised agreed to wait a bit, knowing that he got swamped, and needed to at least get the original boards out the door. but he bailed on everyone, and went into hiding, and the people who backed him for $100, $120, $150 each, aren't any too happy about it. but even they were willing to give him more time, if he had just popped up and said anything. the majority of his backers who posted were ready to give him more time, but he squandered that too. now, there is little or no sympathy to be had.
 
Well said Allen. At the end of the day Kickstarter is Venture Capital. Ask most Angle funds or Venture Capital Funds how many of the investments that they even do due diligence on fail and you would be lucky if its 20 out of 100.

Same goes for everyone of you who have a penny in the stock market. You have surrendered your hard earned cash to own a piece of paper that represents a value that varies by the day based on the performance of a group of people and what the rest of the market believe they are up to. There is as you know absolutely no guarantee that the fund your money has been put in will make a positive return or even return your capital ask the former ENRON Shareholders or those that gave Bernie Madhoff their money.

But given Neds membership of the general woodworking community and his so called being a member of a Masonic Lodge I would have expected better from him in the area of being a principled man of values with some honor. There was a moment in all this that i felt perhaps the weight of the responsibility/screw up, he had taken on may have caused him some mental health issue as a result of not living up to his own expectations and promises but that belief has passed given that the guy is still present in the online world and never taken the effort to come clean.

I do think anyone heading his way and seeking some form of confrontation is looking for big trouble in the law suite department and better have good liability insurance not worth the risk/effort in my view.

As Carol said people need to do due diligence not act on emotional sentiment and then get upset when dissapointed by the failure of performance.

No difference to the contractor that arrives at a job site takes the clients money and then hi tails it never to return. Happens here all the time because people fail to create a contract and then pay before work is done. This is as Steve called it a THIEF.
 
it just struck me, this is a fine example of life imitating art. it brings to mind the scene from the movie animal house, where they are in the garage after the road trip, with flounder blubbering over the wreck of his brother's brand new lincoln continental, with hoover and bluto trying to cheer him up (not very successfully), and finally hoover tells him "hey, you screwed up, you trusted us".
 
I'll try to reserve a comment, I feel sorry for Ned. just got over head way to fast with out a back up. I know there's a lot of people here who would have probably offered or jump in helping out if you'd only asked. I just hope that he gets it figured out all this kind of stuff will drive a man down and keeping down for a long time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top