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question about a glue joint failure

Dan Noren

Dan Noren

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falcon heights, minnesota
my wife :blah: told me that 2 of her friends from church have told her that their cutting boards have had glue joint failures. i have examined the one, and 2 of the joints have separated along the short way (end grain, rectangular), yet all of the other joints have held together in spite of use and abuse. i could tell by the dryness of this board, that it had not been oiled since the day i oiled it a little over a year ago, and she had cleaned it with hot water. now we have an edge grain cutting board that my wife :blah: has used and abused for years, soaked overnight, scrubbed with brillo pads, etc., and it has held together admirably. the only things i can think of with the other 2 boards, especially with the one i had seen, is that it could be a slightly glue starved joint (i use titebond original with all of them, including the one my wife :blah: abuses), lack of an oil coating to keep the end grain protected, and quite possibly a trip or two in the dishwasher. any other ideas out there?
 
I tell people that water is the enemy when I give them a board. Hand wash in luke warm water and soap, do not soak, rinse immediately and towel dry immediately...essentially the same instructions for a bowl. I use TBIII also... My boards get two treatments of Watco Butcher Block Oil, which is a very thin product that will actually wick entirely through an inch-and-a-half thick end grain board in a very short time. After it dries the board gets the walnut oil/beeswax paste coating buffed out. The recipient gets a small jar of the mixture with refresh instructions. I have a friend that would disregard the instructions and throw a board in the dishwasher. She has often wondered why she never received one of my boards. I made sure her husband knows the reason... and he agrees. :)
 
I checked the titebond site, and this is the way they test the type 1. Boil specimens for four hours, then bake for twenty hours at 145 degrees, then boil again for four hours, cool with running water, then bend until it breaks. I think it may be starved joints as others are still strong.
 
I can't believe you would have put together a glue starved joint. I've got a couple of boards I used Type II that I use all the time , end and edge. No issues whatsoever.

I'm going to lean towards either soaking in water, or dishwasher usage.
 
2 things that do not go in the dishwasher.

Cutting Boards and Knives.

Been to too many peoples houses where the knives aren't sharp enough to cut butter and the cutting boards are made of plastic.
 
From what I have been able to find, the water temperature can range from 120 to 140 degrees. Enough to swell wood and break a weak join. I'm pretty sure that is what happened, as the entire board did not fall apart.
 
But seriously, Take a look at their knives. If the knives are sharp, well, maybe there was an issue with the board.

But if their knives are dull, well, then I think you'd have your answer. If they can't take care of a knife, they can't take care of a wooden cutting board.
 
I've used Titebond II on virtually everything I've built, including cutting boards. The only one to fail was one I gave my MIL about 12 years ago. I told her it needed to be oiled occasionally after she washed it by hand. Her husband, who knows more than all the rest of us put together, insisted the board didn't need oil. I got it back a little over a year later when it was coming apart. He still insisted I didn't know what I was talking about with the oil.

As to the water-resistant qualities of Titebond, here's what their website says:

"Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is the only leading brand, one-part wood glue that passes the ANSI Type II water-resistance specification. It is ideal for exterior woodworking projects, including outdoor furniture, birdhouses, mailboxes, planters and picnic tables."
 
I have no experience with cutting boards but, from what you mention I agree with you that the diswasher had at least part on that, they reach really high temperatures that no one can stand if had it been washed by hand.
However, end grain gluing is always less resistant, and some woods give better results than others to that respect. Dunno...
 
Any guess I make would be just that: a guess. Given the facts as you described I doubt it was the glue and may have been a combination of the other factors. Probably best to just move on and not worry too much.
 
Lots of good info/answers here:) personally I use TBll, water resentant for most, if for someone I don't know, TBlll no question. TB one works OK in most cases dependent on how cleaned/soaked I bet glue starved, as you mentioned, is the issue here, it happens. Sometimes due to extended length glue ups that happens with elaborate designs, which falls in line with your great end grain boards, that comes into play.You already know your fix Dan, just keep your elaborate board designs going:)
 
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I am experimenting with end grain boards as a product to use up offcuts. As part of the process I made a small end grain board - about 20 blocks - which was edge glued with TBIII, lightly oiled with mineral oil and then left in the dishwasher to see how long it lasted. I ended up taking it out after it had been through 20+ washing cycles as it didn't look like it was gonna make any difference how long I left it in there - no failed joints. Timber in that test was Iroko.

Not conclusive proof of anything and I would still tell people no dishwasher but it kinda shows that TBIII looks pretty much up to the job.
 
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