10 yr values

larry merlau

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Location
Delton, Michigan
if you were to get a low angle jack or a low angle smoother, like these
wood riiver-199, leevalley-245, LNeilson-245
which would be worth more at ten years from now with good care? and with the close pricing now days which one would you get and why?
the highland video is nice and then tells you that other planes work better for some of the things these will do.
what i am looking to do is consolidate to the best of the best and possibly thin out the extras.. but i now have one old 4.5 corrugated that doesnt seem to do the job i thought it would or the operator needs more practice:)
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I am not sure that I would bother with trying to determine which would offer the best return in investment in ten years. If it is that important, save the money and invest it. :) If it was me, first consideration would be the one with the best quality and the second consideration, the one made in the USA. Considering the offerings you show, it would be between the Lee Valley and the Lie Nielsen. I think you know which one I have out of those two.
 
I think the Veritas and the LN would be very close, honors going to the LN. I have the Veritas and it's a very nice plane. The Wood River planes may be nice (or not) but I don't think they'll hold value like the other two.
 
I do not think that 10 years is enough to convert those planes into collectibles if that is what you are asking, IMHO I think that they would retain about 50 to 60% of the price depending on use or abuse. Why? well... because if I wanted to buy one and it cost about 75% or 80% of the price I would rather buy a new one.
As it has been said before the buyer wants to buy cheap and the seller wants to sell expensive, but in second hand tools I believe it is more a matter of having the right price at the right time.
Besides given the present economical situation, people are more cautious when spending their money. From those that you show, I woud keep the LN first.
 
I don't think of resale value of tools when I buy. Yes I do think of resale value if in the event I need to sell because of life changes and I need to downsize to an apartment or something like that.

That sort of value is not an investment.

In my shop there is nothing that will sell for more than I paid - unless I was a horse trader, which I am. However it will be rare.

On the contrary - the best value in the lowest cost for the best quality on the purchase.

Buy the LN - USED, and pay 50% of new cost. Then -maybe-, in 10 years - maybe- you could sell it for 5-10 dollars more than you paid for it, otherwise it's like a car, a bad investment.

I don't think anyone is going to deny that LN is the more desired of the 3. Personally, I like the LEE VALLEY, but I would certainly buy the Wood River.

On the other hand - I bought a few Bailey planes that I paid $35 for a few years ago. In 1929-1930 they likely sold for less than $35 each. The price increase is not due to increased value, but more due to inflation. Even a loaf of bread costs more today.

As to buy American. That is a very romantic notion, but I would challange any reader here to be TOTALLY and REALLY honest - Do You REALLY - comeon, be honest - do you REALLY buy ONLY American? Television, radio, coffee maker, car, shoes, coat, hat, chair, computer, coffee cup, silverware, floor under you feet, carpet, plywood, hardwood, flashlight, pencils, turners pen kits, dishwasher, lawnmower, coffee table, stuff hanging on the walls, lamps, light bulbs cleaning fluids, etc - look at the labels. If you are TRULY, one of the very few - raise your hand. I am not one, but at least I admit it. That is not to say I would like to be one.
 
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good point toni, and now to find a used LN is going to be a long watch,, calling jim delaney:) your lucky at finding deals:) i do try to buy american and local as much as i can, but we all buy other stuff that isnt..
 
...calling jim delaney:) your lucky at finding deals:) i do try to buy american and local as much as i can, but we all buy other stuff that isnt..

I'll keep an eye out, but I haven't seen a used LN plane in a long time - other than EBay, of course, where the resale prices are generally outrageous. Ignoring resale value, I still think the Wood River would be your best bet.
 
Lie-Nielsen is the gold standard. Several of my friends work for them (manning the show that they take around the country).

BUT for the low angle Jack, there were a few features that the Lee Valley (Veritas) has that the Lie-Nielsen does not have. I found three people who had used both for real work, not just testing. All three voted for the Veritas. Therefore I bought the Lee Valley Veritas. I later found a fourth person, who also voted for the Veritas.

That vote was limited to the low angle jack. I would consider both companies for other planes, but I love that low angle jack plane. I have all three blades, and the "normal" blade is sharpened as a smoother. I never use my Stanley smoother any more.

I do have other Lie Nielsen tools, including their spoke shave and dovetail saw.

What are the extra features? Veritas has set screws on the side to keep the blade centered in the throat. Veritas can open the throat to clean out chips, and go back to the previous setting "instantly." I like the way you adjust the blade angle better on Veritas, but that is a preference rather than a feature of one over the other.

Which has higher value now: Veritas. Which will have higher value in 10 years, probably Lie Nielsen, because of the reputation.
 
I had three Stanley planes when I started in woodworking: a Jack plane, a jointer plane and a block plane. When I purchased my first "good" plane I gave away the two larger planes. I still have the block plane and it works OK.

Glenn and I went to one of the wood shows. We went back and forth between LN and Lee Valley several times. I purchased a Veritas (Lee Valley) Low-angle Smooth plane and Glenn purchased a Veritas Small, bevel up smooth plane at the Show. Each of us has purchased several Veritas planes since then. One of the many things that impressed us was the total ease of removing an iron and putting an iron into the plane. The iron can go into the plane and be perfectly adjusted in a few seconds; there is none of the fiddling around, try, readjust that the other planes require.

I think that the adjustable opening make chips afraid to get stuck in the throat. The planes have a comfortable weight and a comfortable feel. The Shoulder Planes are a real joy to use. My Stanley Block plane that I kept is great to use but I use the Stanley only as a "Beater" plane on old skungy wood that might contain inclusions. The Stanley is a fine plane with an adjustable throat, but it takes 10 times as long to replace the blade and adjust after sharpening. It is not as comfortable to use as the Veritas block plane.

It used to be that I would say, "That's my two cents worth." Today I think I should say, "That's my quarter's worth."

Enjoy,
JimB
 
Well I was given the LN plane as a gift from Garrett Hack, so I guess my vote would be for the LN plane, but, the LV plane would certainly have been in the running if I was buying this class of plane now.

Wood River Made in China..... that is all I need to know, I'd much rather support Companies like Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen. To Leo's point, do I only buy from the US or Canada, no of course not, but when given a choice, I will choose not to buy Chinese, and I want to make sure you all understand that to be Mainland China, the Chi-coms, not Taiwan.

I try to vote with my wallet in this case. Now if the US or Canadian product was far inferior than the Chinese product, then I would most likely go with the better product, but that is not the case here, given the choice I'll spend a bit more and go with the North American product, YMMV :D
 
hey stu, where is lee valley stuff made? and what is your take on the setup like jim B mentioned.. i havnt seen one yet but hear they have set screws for easily setup of the irons and mouth settings?
 
charlie which smoother did you get the 62 jack or the regular smoother with 2" irons?

I inherited a Stanley #4 smoothing plane - reasonably well tuned, but never perfected like the LV Jack plane. By the time I had enough experience with hand planes to really take advantage of them, I had and loved the Jack plane, so the Stanley is rarely used.

I have the three blades for the low angle Jack plane. I believe it comes with the 25 degree blade; add the 12 degree bed and it becomes a 37 degree cutting angle, great for trimming dovetails and other end grain work. The middle blade - 38 degrees plus 12 degrees bed makes it a 50 degree cutting angle, close to most bench planes. That is the blade I have sharpened as a smoother (tiny curve so there are no lines at the end of the blade when taking a shallow cut). The 50 degree blade plus 12 degrees bed makes a 62 degree cutting angle for stubborn grain - getting close to the performance of a scraper.

Normally a smoother is a shorter plane so you can make the surface nice even it it isn't absolutely flat, but I like the jack plane to flatten and smooth things that are too wide for the jointer - like table tops.

The jack plane is great when putting a hardwood edge on plywood. I can use either the nose or the tail of the plane to align on the plywood, at an angle so the blade is only over the glued-on hardwood. I set my lipping planer to cut a few thousandths high, and then take the last pass with the jack plane... or at other times, I just use the jack plane without getting out the lipping plane.
 
If I were to buy a plane of this quality, it would be the Veritas, mainly because it is made in Canada, and I doubt that there is much difference in quality amongst the three of them. As far as resale value goes, unless there is something wrong with the plane, my kids are going to sell it at my estate auction, and I don't care.
 
...where is lee valley stuff made? and what is your take on the setup like jim B mentioned.. i havnt seen one yet but hear they have set screws for easily setup of the irons and mouth settings?

They're made in Canada.

They have set screws on either side of the body, just up from the mouth, that can be adjusted to keep the blade centered, and allow it to be removed and replaced in the exact same orientation.

The adjuster is a variation (improvement) on the "Norris style." It's very precise, and also incorporates the lateral adjustment. Just move the adjustment knob from side-to-side to adjust laterally.

The mouth is adjustable - pretty much in the same way as most block planes. Just loosen the front knob and slide the front portion of the sole in/out. Very handy for clearing clogs, as others have mentioned.

They're really nice planes, Larry.

The LN and Wood River are essentially the same plane (taking point of origin and overall manufacturing quality out of the picture). Both are clones of the hundred year old Stanley 62. The Veritas takes that basis, and improves upon it, bringing it into the 21st century, so to speak.
 
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The mouth is adjustable - pretty much in the same way as most block planes. Just loosen the front knob and slide the front portion of the sole in/out. Very handy for clearing clogs, as others have mentioned.

....

The big extra on the Veritas is a thumb screw to determine how far the mouth closes. With most planes, if a shaving gets stuck, you loosen the front portion of the sole, take the shaving out, and then manually/carefully reset the mouth opening. With the Veritas you just slide it back to the adjusting screw, and you are back at exactly the same setting. If you are trying to make a slight adjustment in the mouth, you can loosen the front sole and adjust with the thumb screw. Time to clear a chip on the Veritas, 2 seconds. Time to clear a chip on most planes, 20 seconds.
 
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