Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Bailey planes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashua Iowa
    Posts
    130

    Bailey planes

    If a person pays attention to the cutting pressure of a plane it is down and back against the blade. So on a Bailey, if a person just snugs the screws that hold the frog on the frog can still be moved. The downwart cutting force keeps the frog from lifting and the frog adjusting screw takes the backward force. And the frog design of a Bailey is parelell and not down on an angle like a bedrock. If the screws are just tight enough to allow the frog adjusting screw to turn, the frog can opened and closed without removing the blade or lever cap and the blade does not need to be re-adjusted like a bedrock does. The reason for the popularity of the bedrock flat side style is so the frog can be adjusted without loosening the lever cap and or removing the blade. But the blade does need to be readjusted, but not on a Bailey.


    The problem with most people is that if a screw or bold can be tightened, it wil be tightened to the limit of what the person is capable of. and not what is proper. Usually even torque wrenches are tightened with a jurk and way over done. I find that even the levercap is over tightened on most planes that I pick up. I know I have again touched the sacrid cow, but hopefully one or two will dry it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,749
    I usually set the frog to a very narrow gap ahead of the blade, as I always try to take a very thin shaving, so I just set the frog once and forget it. If it's a Bailey knock-off and doesn't have a frog adjusting screw, once I've got the frog where I want it, I just snug the screws good and tight and Bob's yer uncle.
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Rochester
    Posts
    846
    Excellent points that I may have never picked up on. It's always nice to get some credible expert guidance. Thanks Tom!
    Got Wood?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashua Iowa
    Posts
    130
    Most people set the frog and never move it again. I am one of those people, but one of the reasons peole are willing to spend the bucks for a Bedrock flat or a high dollar aftermarket plane, is that they can move the frog without removing the blade. Everyone knows you have to take off the blade to move the frog on a Bailey therefore it is a plane of less quality. I do want to go on record by saying that if you have the money and want an a Bedrock or aftermarket plane go for it, they are great planes

    I deal in planes as a hobbie and usually the lever cap is way to tight so it has to be released to adjust the blade but the blade jumps and looses its setting and the list of problems goes on and people get frustrated and don't use a plane. I hear it all the time the new planes are easier to adjust, less back lash in the threads. If the blade with the chip braker is pulled up against the yoke and the levercap is set so the blade can be moved forward,The cutting force is going to push the blade back against the yoke anyway. The blade is more easily adjusted and the backlash doen't have to come into play.

    Screws snuged good and tight I also see all the time. I find the first thing I have to do is clamp them in a vise and put a large adjustable whench onto the screw driver and see if the screws will come loose. If not penatrating oil and lastly heat. Just because you can tighten then way past what is necessary dosen't mean you should.

    The trick is how to get the frog and cutting edge of the plane where you want it. And you can't really do that with the screws snuged good and tight. Start withthe frogt back a little, I prefer to use a longer bladed screwdriver to get around the handle and adjust the blade down until it just shaves thin piece of pine, a 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide, on both sides of the blade a little and then move the frog a little closer to the front of the mouth, and just play with it, advance the blade, and go on untill it realy works for you. You may have to start over a couple of times but so what. If you don't get in a huryand advance either one to far the backlash doesn't come into play,

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,749
    I hear you about the lever cap. I've broken fingernails trying to undo some of them when I get them as used planes. I'm a little confused by your terminology. All of my Stanley bench planes have a frog adjusting screw, but none of them are Bedrock, and all of them are Bailey patterns, as Stanley bought Bailey's patents. I have a few Bailey knock offs, without the frog adjusting screw, which I think was an enhancement made by the Stanley works. When tuned up, they all work well. I am considering selling off some of my planes, to give me funds to buy more wooeworking stuff, but there are some I just can 't beat to part with.

    Oh, the frog adjustment screw first appeared on Stanley bench planes in 1907.
    Last edited by Roger Tulk; 04-18-2015 at 05:36 PM.
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashua Iowa
    Posts
    130
    [I] will take Rogers word for the date. The type 10 is type where the adjusting screw first appeared. On the eariler ones the seating was different. And then you can also get into the prelaterals. But they did continue to make Stanleys without the frog adjusting screws. Not all Stanley planes are Stanley Bailey planes The word Bailey is missing but one has to be careful because the seating is the same as the bailey or it can be flat. Also a lot of the WW2 war planes don't have the frog adjusting screws and also the ones produced right after didn't also but they do say Bailey on them. The war planes are somewhat easy to reconize they have the Bakelight (plastic) blade adjusting screw. I lot of people prefer the war planes because they had a thicker heavier main body.

    The bedrock, the keen Kutter K series and the Bailey are to different planes, all are or were made by Stanley. Just like the Chevy and the Pontiac and the Buick are. All three are or were made by GM but different cars from different plants. If you shop around you should be able to get a nice Bailey #4 for around $25-$30. But one is not going to get a 604 Bedrock flat side for much less than $100. there is a big difference in price and I believe a Lie Lielsen 4 goes for $325 so there is a big difference in price.

    PS: The Keen Kutter KK series was made by Ohio Tool and rank right up there with the Stanley handyman. Don't get them confussed with the Keen Kutter K series

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Cod, Ma.
    Posts
    1,553
    correct.me.if.im wrong but one other point is that the frog on the bedrock gives full support to the back of the blade whereas the bailey does not. on light cuts this may not make a difference but once some force is used that.lack of support causes chatter as the blade can slightly flex.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bedroc4.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	30.5 KB 
ID:	90295
    Last edited by Rich Soby; 04-28-2015 at 04:34 PM.
    He who laughs last, thinks slowest

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nashua Iowa
    Posts
    130
    Since all blades are sharpened at an angle no plane offers support at the cutting edge. I use a 30 degree angle as an example because the side opp. is 1/2 the length of the Hyp on a triangle. So if the thickness of the blade is 1/8 inch, which it isn't, then lenght of the hyp. is 1/4 inch. So the actual cutting edge is unsupported for 1/4 of an inch back from the actual cutting edge. And a Bailey offers support closer the the cutting edge than that.

    Things have changed now. Before WW2 give or take a few years, people didn't have tablesaws, electric drills, or planners. My wife did homework by kerosene lamps until the late fifties. The quality of the hand plane stated going down hill in the fifties and manufauring stopped some years latter only to start up again reciently. My point is that there were thousands of Bailey planes made when there was a real call for them and if the support of the blade was an issue then nobody would have bought them. All that would have been sold would have been Bedrocks.

    I deal in hand planes and my post stated what I have found to be true. It is just another way of looking at things. People use information differently. For ezample there is the material people use in makiig blades. The is 1095 plane carbon steel which better than the old steel used, but the truthis anything from 1060 and above is full harding. There is now 1095, O1, A2, and PM11 , I think that is the number, and each has its own caractoristics. Personally I use the original and stop and resharpen it when it get dull. My cost is zero. So use information for what it is, information.

    If a person is worrid about blade flexing in a Bailey then don't buy a Bailey.

Similar Threads

  1. Bailey No.4
    By Roy Millsaps in forum Neander Woodworking Q&A
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-26-2015, 03:30 PM
  2. A couple of bailey type 11 planes
    By Tom Bussey in forum Classified Ads
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-03-2014, 10:33 PM
  3. Making Moulding Planes - Wooden Planes
    By Tom Becnel in forum Handtool Project Showcase
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-15-2012, 08:35 PM
  4. Bailey #5 rehab
    By Bartee Lamar in forum General Woodworking Q&A
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-30-2009, 04:17 PM
  5. Bailey #4
    By Stuart Ablett in forum Neander Tool Questions and Show & Tell
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-09-2007, 05:16 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •