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Thread: More about gouges

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    More about gouges

    I hope I'm not wearing you down withmy questions.

    I set up my grinding rig today, and sharpened all my gouges. I took my spindle gouges, and however they were previously ground, I put a 45 grind on them, rotating them on the stone without any fancy swinging back and forth. I left my Irish grind bowl gouge alone. So, from what you can see here, do my grinds look OK for spindle work?

    Now, this one is of the stand I keep my chisels in. It's so clever I had to show you, and it also works as a mating stall for tools.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    These are the backs and the fronts of my tools, respectively, the one on the far right is my bowl gouge:
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    These are the tips of five of the chisels, the last one showing the flute and back:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So, do these look reasonable well ground to you guys, or should I refine my technique, or get someone else to do it?


    I would also like to know if lathe tools are oviparous or viviparous, or reproduce by cell division. I swear when I counted at the start there were 12 tools in the stand, but at the end there were 13. I didn't see any little lathe tool eggs lying around while I was working, so I want to know how they gave birth to another tool. It had to be one of the 3/8" gouges.
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  2. #2
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    While I'm on the subject, I've seen a grind like this referred to as a fingernail grind, but have heard that also applied to the Irish grind, and the Irish grind is sometimes referred to as an Ellsworth, but some Ellsworths seem to be much more swept. I have also heard woodturners say that they sometimes put an Irish grind on a spindlie gouge. Where does it end?
    Last edited by Roger Tulk; 05-31-2015 at 01:25 AM.
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  3. #3
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    Personally, I prefer to have the wings on bowl and detail gouges more swept back than your examples. I also think I use a more acute angle, although I couldn't tell you what it is because I've never measured it. My gouges aren't close at hand, but when I get a chance, I'll grab a photo or two for you. (Although if you look at the pics on Doug Thompson's website, that's pretty much how I run mine, although I think I might sweep the wings back a little more than Doug does.)

    Regarding the Irish/Fingernail/Ellsworth grinds, if you ask 10 different turners to describe the difference you'll likely get 15 different explanations. All three names are nebulous enough that there is no finite answer to the question, in my opinion. Then there are the guys who have the left wing swept back a different amount than the right wing. I have no idea what that'd be called. My suggestion is don't get too hung up on the names (or even the specific angles involved) and just experiment with different angles and degrees of wing sweepage until you find what works best for you.
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Hunter S. Thompson
    When the weird get going, they start their own forum. - Vaughn McMillan

    workingwoods.com

  4. #4
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    Having so many spindle gouges, and with three more bowl gouges on the way, I'm happy to experiment. I put the names of the gouges on the ferrules so if my grandkids or other sprouts are helping, I can ask for the tool I want. Maybe I should name the scrapers and skews, too.
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  5. #5
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    The Gorge Area, Oregon
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    Agree with Vaughn, I like a bit more wing, it's more forgiving in use cause you're less likely to catch the edge/corner of the chisel.

    I also regrind the bottom of the first pass to round over the curve a bit. Makes it a bit more forgiving on the transitions.

    You might notice I'm all about the more foregiving grind, it has made my life a bit simpler though. Some of the more "technical" grinds might do a smidge better job in some cases, but require more finesse and.. well finesse and me ain't best friends

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Mooney View Post
    I also regrind the bottom of the first pass to round over the curve a bit. Makes it a bit more forgiving on the transitions.
    I think agreeing with Vaughan is always a good strategy. I thought doing a secondary bevel was mostly for bowl turners. Is it good for spindle turners, too?
    Cheers,
    Roger


    The other member of Mensa, but not the NRA

    Everyone is a self-made person.

    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their veracity" -Abraham Lincoln

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Tulk View Post
    I think agreeing with Vaughan is always a good strategy.
    Unlikely to go to wrong, at least in regards to turning tools
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Tulk View Post
    I thought doing a secondary bevel was mostly for bowl turners. Is it good for spindle turners, too?
    I was mostly looking at the bowl gouges, but I like a bit shallower grind on the detail gouges for what little I've played with them. I'd ignore me for specifics on detail gouges though, I've forced myself to do more skew work and so have done a lot less with them than most turners.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Clyce, Texas
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    Grind angle, grind style, wings/no wings, secondary bevel, and all the other things you hear about are mostly matters of personal preference, how you were trained, and how you hold and use your tools. The biggest things are keeping your tools sharp and keeping the grind consistent for your tools. If you find a way to sharpen so your bevel angle is the same every time, learning and muscle memory will occur and your turning will improve much more and more quickly than grinding a specific grind or angle on your tools will help. If you're constantly having to chase a new grind angle on the bevel, the big muscles never have the opportunity to learn how to hold the gouge. Grind them the way you're comfortable and enjoy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Kniffen View Post
    Grind angle, grind style, wings/no wings, secondary bevel, and all the other things you hear about are mostly matters of personal preference, how you were trained, and how you hold and use your tools. The biggest things are keeping your tools sharp and keeping the grind consistent for your tools. If you find a way to sharpen so your bevel angle is the same every time, learning and muscle memory will occur and your turning will improve much more and more quickly than grinding a specific grind or angle on your tools will help. If you're constantly having to chase a new grind angle on the bevel, the big muscles never have the opportunity to learn how to hold the gouge. Grind them the way you're comfortable and enjoy.
    I'll chime in here and add my 2 cents to Steve's comment... I use my 5/8" bowl gouge almost exclusively and have it ground on a 60 degree bevel... it's what I got used to and to change it would mean changing the way I turn...
    Chuck
    Tellico Plains, TN
    https://www.etsy.com/shop/TellicoTurnings
    My parents taught me to respect my elders, but it's getting harder and harder to find any.
    If you go looking for trouble, it will usually find you.

  10. #10
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    I have two with a fingernail grind and two with a steeper grind for a more acute radius in taller bowls. Experiment and see what's what...where your comfort level lands. I do add a sub bevel to avoid bruising the wood...friggin pain to sand out once it's there. Since all but one of mine are Thompsons...I grind the way he says to. He made 'em and should best know how grind 'em.
    Your Respiratory Therapist wears Combat boots

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