Water Heaters - Gas or Electric?

Carol Reed

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Coolidge, AZ
OK. Finally back home and work begins in earnest on the house plans. Need to specify gas or electric water heater. I will have propane for the furnace and gas range top. (Electric oven).

Which is more efficient? Power is very pricey in SoCal. But I can put the water heater on a timer. Propane ain't cheap either. Should point out that I plan on solar water heat in the near future.

Thoughts?
 
I'm not going to offer an answer to your question, but back in the dark ages when I lived in California, PG&E wasn't all that bad... when I moved back to Texas my utilities actually went up over what I was paying in CA... but again that was way back... almost 40 years ago.

Here in TN my house is all electric... cost runs right at or over $200 per month.

Have you considered one of those machines that gives hot water on demand... doesn't continually keep a tank hot?
 
The efficiency part I can't comment on. But, I do suggest any brand except GE. When I bought my current house the wh was almost brand new. Less than a year later the bottom fell out. It was still under warranty but the dealer could not do anything without GE approval and they denied it. Letters and stomping my feet changed nothing. I had the same experience with a GE electronic air filter. They denied even making or selling it even though I sent photos of the unit and the metal identification label. :bang: I ended up getting a Marathon plastic electric heater from my electric company. I pay an $11.00 a month lease but they fully maintain it and, being plastic, cannot rust through. Had it 14 years now with only one heater coil burn out which they replaced promptly at no charge. Buy the best, and that would not be GE.
 
In your area, electricity is very high in cost. The advantages of a tankless heater are the small size. Disadvantages are the high initial cost (for a unit that will let you take a shower) and greater maintenance over the life of the device. In SDG&E's turf I would be surprised at anything other than gas making sense.

I recently replaced a failed unit that had lasted years longer than normal. I went through my usual analysis of such things. Despite the brand I did notice that units with longer warranties (12 year versus 6 for example) were essentially the same unit made with more durable parts. Just a little more fuel for your decision engine. :)
 
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I installed my current propane water heater (Home Depot special) on 10/24/98 and it has worked flawlessly.

If your use will be intermittent (long assignments elsewhere, lots of sunny days with a solar system) then the tank-less heaters make more sense. If your use will be more continuous, and you can locate your tank near where the hot water will be used (no long runs with wasted hot water), then the tank makes more sense.

Gas vs. Electric... In terms of buying BTUs, generally natural gas is cheaper than propane is cheaper than electric, but a lot of the economics depend on the providers and competition. If natural gas is out, then a realtor probably has the best measure about which (propane vs. electric) is preferred in your area.

Tankless heaters have gotten a lot better in the last 10-20 years (early units failed too often). According to Stuart Ablett, that is practically the only thing used in Japan, so the technology must have settled down. I have an early adopter friend who didn't know who to call for repair of his... the furnace man, the plumber, or the appliance (stove) repairman, since it seemed to cross technologies, and nobody had experience (then) in his area.
 
Jim, I know of no natural gas anywhere in the county. My lot is in the county. No 'municipal' utilities available, except for water.

Does anyone know if I can use a timer with a gas hot water heater? I would think a pilot-less ignitor could be cut out of the temperature loop with a timer.
 
Gas vs. Electric... In terms of buying BTUs, generally natural gas is cheaper than propane is cheaper than electric, but a lot of the economics depend on the providers and competition. If natural gas is out, then a realtor probably has the best measure about which (propane vs. electric) is preferred in your area.

This ^^^

You really care about cost per delivered BTU, which depends on the cost of the fuel source in your area.
http://energy.gov/eere/femp/energy-cost-calculator-electric-and-gas-water-heaters-0 - the water heaters should list their energy factor so you can plug that in.
http://energy.gov/energysaver/artic...cy-storage-demand-and-heat-pump-water-heaters

I'm going to guess you won't have the ability to store a lot of propane space wise so its likely to be somewhat variable in price depending on regional demand/availability.

A hybrid solar setup is probably the best payback in your area at a somewhat arbitrary guess.
 
Even if I moved back to Canada I'd replace whatever water heater we had with a Tankless unit when the time came.

They just work, and they are dead easy to install, water in, water out, and plug it into an exterior wall outlet. Then pay the gas company to hook it up. The last unit that I did for an aparto reno was about $350 and the gas guys charged us about $100 to hook up the gas.

Rinnai is the major brand here.


You can see two of the units I installed, they just vent off the top, no need for any fancy above the roof line vent pipes.

tankless.jpg


I think you guys are getting ripped off on the prices of the tankless units in the US, you NEVER see hot water tanks here in homes.
 
We had a tankless on two houses and they are fantastic!! Both were Rinnai. Saves loads of $$ especially in Calif with the stupid high cost of power. Goes on and off on a timer; we got up at 0500 for work so the circulation pump would start at 0430, off at 0630. Not only does it save $$ on gas, but metered water as well. Only difference in plumbing in a new build is the addition of a loop to circulate the water.
 
When we built in 05 I went with a tankless, won't ever have a tanked again. It's a NG unit. All four of us can take a shower in the morning and we never run out of hot water. That's taking two showers at the same time back to back.
 
Where I used to live I had a close friend who owned several apartment complexes. He use the tankless water heaters. He felt that it was very cost effective. I do not remember ever hearing him complain about them. I have heard him complain about a lot of other things in construction however. From our conversations I would put in tankless if I were to build again.

SDG&E is noted for its high cost of electricity. I don't know if that is a general rule, however, it seems to be the general rule for people I know. When Myrna and I lived in Fallbrook my friend across the street paid several hundred percent more to heat his electric house even though mine (on Propane) was quite a bit larger than his. I cannot remember the size of my tank, however it was quite a bit larger than most of the units I have seen.

Gee, in the Real Estate classes I took they taught everything is, "Location, location, location." I think that today that might be, "Decisions, decisions, decisions."

Enjoy,
JimB
 
Well, Jon, the architect suggested tankless as well. So I may have to rethink this. For now it will be propane, not electric, and on a timer. One of the goals of the house is passive energy as much as possible going forward. Solar hot water is in the future. More research to do. And Jim, you are so right. Lots and lots of decisions. And the challenge of staying on budget.
 
You won't need a timer with tankless, it only heats when you use it. Mine is off until it senses flow of the hot water. Now if your talking during the day when you can use solar for hot water, that's different. I think you mean it can be off when I can use solar and on when I can't.

I've been thinking about this. I don't have any idea about the cost of a solar hot water system. I'm assuming you can use one all year? I can't imagine you living alone using crazy amounts of hot water. What would be the pay back on the solar system? That would be one of the questions I'd want to know?
 
Well, Jon, the architect suggested tankless as well. So I may have to rethink this. For now it will be propane, not electric, and on a timer. One of the goals of the house is passive energy as much as possible going forward. Solar hot water is in the future. More research to do. And Jim, you are so right. Lots and lots of decisions. And the challenge of staying on budget.

We're considering tank-less as well, mostly to save on space in our mechanical/laundry room. We've got natural gas, so not much of a question based on operating costs that it will be gas. Since you're doing a septic, you could investigate running one off of methane. :)

http://www.completebiogas.com/B_Under.html
 
Wouldn't hurt to check out the new Tesla house battery. Charges from solar during the day and provides (nearly) free electricity at high usage evenings. Recently introduced they are selling like crazy. Could be the thing of the future for all of us.
 
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