A new CNC build.

Carol Reed

In Memoriam
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5,533
Location
Coolidge, AZ
Been working up to this for a while. Pulling the trigger.

The machine will be based on the Computer Router Parts machine.
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/index.php
PRO4824-14-1-plans.jpg

I have an email out to them with the first of a bazillion questions.

I saw the real thing last Monday. Was very impressed. Today I went to OSML, a very interesting resource. It is a very well equipped lab for building stuff. Darren and Brent, you guys would need bibs for the drool! :rofl:
http://www.opensourcemakerlabs.com/

Now I have a place to build it, plus tools I don't have and expertise in all sorts of areas I will need.

Also, found a local supplier for 8020 extrusions. I already have a great fasteners supplier, so hopefully I can save some money with an adulterated kit. At least on shipping.

I plan on a water cooled spindle as opposed to a router. Todd, from last Monday, showed me his and it is amazingly quiet.

So why? Found sufficient justification! I have a couple of products in mind that I think will do well. I will use it in building the house with all the special systems I have in mind for that. It will also have a Z-axis with a plasma torch on it and a removable water table. And a rotary indexer for the products I have in mind. And last, but certainly not least, I want one!

I started a Build Journal and blabbed to you all, so you can keep me honest!
 
Here ya go, Jay...

HMwb1CL.jpg
 
Carol
This company (person) has some parts and kits very similar to the CNC Router Parts Guy.

I am not sure what the relationship is between Nate and Aron now. And not sure if the rails and such are the same size exactly. I think at one time Nate was buying the lenear rail bearings from Aron and building the rest of the machine. May be worth taking a look. Nate at Fine Line Automation has had some delivery problems in the past not sure what his reputation is currently. Another option for the same type machine..

https://www.finelineautomation.com/

Garry
 
Thanks, Garry. That company had crossed my radar earlier. However, you mentioned several red flags for doing business with them. Delivery problems will kill the business for sure. Did take another look at the website - no whole machine kits.

Spent an hour on the phone with Cory at Computer Router Parts today. Got a bunch of questions answered and a few more came up! He sent me a brick load of links to check out. I have bunches of research to do.

One of the features of my machine will be rotary engraving/carving. Have to plan the base for that eventuality. Any information any of you have with regard to this would be very welcome. Actually thinking about getting a dead mini-lathe, mount a stepper motor, and plug it into the controller (which will accept it). May need a separate power supply. Any other thoughts?
 
One of the features of my machine will be rotary engraving/carving. Have to plan the base for that eventuality. Any information any of you have with regard to this would be very welcome. Actually thinking about getting a dead mini-lathe, mount a stepper motor, and plug it into the controller (which will accept it). May need a separate power supply. Any other thoughts?

I've pondered this very thing for the last couple years. It's either gonna be a mini lathe, or just a rotary tale with a stepper hooked to it. Something that holds good, has little slop and can take a chuck. You shouldn't need a separate power supply if you get a decent sized one to drive your machine. A 6-axis (or at least enough for the number of actuations you'll have, i saw mention of a tool changer, that might take up another) BoB is a must, then, too, so that you can just plug in another driver to the board, plug in your rotary stepper, and setup your pins. Pretty simple on the electronics side if you get the right BoB straight away.

I like the mini lathe for "already built with bearings and a tailstock to match" standpoint. But I don't like it from a bulk standpoint - if you can get it setup to take the headstock completely off the ways (or maybe lay it on its back?, dunno). It won't eat up too much of your Z height.

Take a look at how Legacy does their rotary. Their whole machine is different - reminds me a little of a shopsmith, in construction, really - rails, some steel plates, etc. But down the center is the rotary axis - it runs below the height of the table, basically giving you a pretty big diameter capacity along with length. The other thing they do is add a "tilt" to one end of that axis, so you can do tapered spiral fluted columns, for example - or tapered spiral barley twists.

Lastly, make SURE you look into the rotary axis ability of any CAM software you choose. 3 axis is easy (relatively speaking), swapping one for a wrapped rotary isn't so bad. But TRUE rotary 4th axis CAM is still a tough nut and may not be as common in our hobby-level pricing for software but the capability of TRUE 4th axis is pretty dang cool ... like, you could carve a human hand reaching out of a lathe chuck, for example, and it'd be very close to realistic (i'll find that video when i get home). 5th and 6th gets even more complex and impressive (and i think there's a law of diminishing returns after 4th ... the price goes WAYWAYWAY up for CAM with 5th and 6th axis ability ... but it's really cool stuff :D
 
Jason, CRP offers a 5-axis controller (not on their website). The CNC uses 4 axis (2 on the Y-axis). So it is pretty much plug and play which I definitely need! Not a tecknogeek by any means.

I will look into the design of the Legacy. Thanks. Right now I just want to design the base so I can do this later.
 
Good planning ... i'd check on tool changers - they may not require a full "axis" - your controller may still have some more output pins that can be used to operate the changer, depending on the design
 
Tool changers are another whole can of worms. Did a quick check on Google, but as cool as they are, I am not ready for them - yet. Gotta draw the line someplace.
 
Nice looking machine Carol, only thing confusing me is they say kits but i notice it does not include everything one needs for a machine like electronics and spindle.
Thats one thing i like about the way Bill and Dans machines came as a real kit so you know what you in for to get a full machine and its all matched at whatever level of power or performance.
I see shapeoko 3 is now out and with heavier duty everything but have not seen too many independent comments on it. Its not a comparison for what you looking at but then price goes with it too.
Wishing u all the best in your venture. Way to go. I admire your spirit really inspirational.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Nice looking machine Carol, only thing confusing me is they say kits but i notice it does not include everything one needs for a machine like electronics and spindle. Thats one thing i like about the way Bill and Dans machines came as a real kit so you know what you in for to get a full machine and its all matched at whatever level of power or performance.

Inventables was good about having items available in kits, but there was a good system of alacarte purchasing as well. I used a combination to get what I wanted.


I see shapeoko 3 is now out and with heavier duty everything but have not seen too many independent comments on it. Its not a comparison for what you looking at but then price goes with it too.

In case you haven't found it, Shapeoko has a good forum for all their products. Here's the link.


Wishing u all the best in your venture. Way to go. I admire your spirit really inspirational.

Amen to that!!!
 
CRP and Shapeko are not in the same budget league, not even close! So I don't see them as competitive with each other. I went with the much pricier CRP because of my experience with the ShopBot years ago, the running gear system of the CRP, the robust construction of the machine, and the eventual ROI when it is time to sell the thing. I have three areas of sales planned, so the robust machine, the help from the guys at CRP, and the forum on CNCZone for support were also influential in my decision. As much fun as I anticipate here, this is not considered a toy by me. I have a plan and a need to generate income with it. I am sure Dan and Bill don't consider their machines toys either, but their reasons for their purchases appear to differ from mine. I spent an hour on the phone with Bill last week and that pretty much helped me make up my mind.

As for the completeness of a 'kit', I like the options I am offered here. It is priced in packages, or you can go off in another entirely different direction with components from other vendors. I have several options I plan in the future. The first is a rotary indexer. The base has to be designed for this from the onset. The second is a water table and plasma cutter. I already have the plasma cutter, now to just get it mounted on the Z-axis for CNC cutting. I also have 3d printing capability at OSML where I will be building my set-up, so who knows how good a thing that is!

A very versatile machine for sure. Each to his own as you well know, Rob. Especially in capitalism.

As soon as I have the custom base worked out, hopefully by the end of this week, I can pull the order trigger.
 
... As much fun as I anticipate here, this is not considered a toy by me. I have a plan and a need to generate income with it. I am sure Dan and Bill don't consider their machines toys either, but their reasons for their purchases appear to differ from mine. I spent an hour on the phone with Bill last week and that pretty much helped me make up my mind. ...

During my conversation with Carol last week, it's obvious she's going the direction of making her CNC work for her in a serious way. Not that there aren't plenty of folks making money with their Shapeoko machines, but there's a difference in focus. My objective in building a CNC was to learn the ins and outs and make a few things for family and friends.

Looking back 12-15 years I, like many woodworkers, decided I should be able to make some decent money building and selling furniture. As I headed into retirement (semi-retirement?), the lure of making money was over-ruled by the desire to do what I want when I want. ;)
 
Carol - I have to support your decision.

My machine is a bit more "robust" than a hobby level machine. Larken Automation is the builder - Camtool 2424 is the model. Larken is not a big player in the CNC router world but they are known for solid robust machines. My machine was new in about 2003-2004 and sold for over $10,000

Even so - I need to baby sit the machine, I needed to do some upgrades and I still cannot reliably walk away from it.

For the above reasons, I have blown a couple of jobs and needed to start over again. I cannot trust the machine. I need to baby it. It is NOT a hobby level machine.

NOW - I have a job that is worth several thousand dollars and the material alone is several hundred dollars. I NEED to be able to trust the machine. I also NEED the speed to make faster cutting without loosing steps or rounding corners.

To me - making the signs is fun, interesting and rewarding. I like it - and I like doing the business --- BUT --- the machine MUST perform within my needed guidelines.

I am a professional CNC Engineer and I work all day every day with industrial CNC machines. I know full well how quality machines perform. That is what I need as well as anyone else in a money making business needs.

I will be upgrading to a larger stronger machine in the future and I know I am looking for some engineering overkill - but, that, is what makes or breaks a job.

My friend Dan Sawatsky has a millions of dollars sign and environments business and he swears by the top of the line machinery.

There are price ranges and budgets. I cannot afford what Dan buys and neither can you. BUT - we can know what is needed to be successful.

You are making a correct and good decision.

The only down side is - you need to build and support your build.
Buying a complete machine, you would but that burden on the builder, and you would do your business related things, rather than repair your machine.
 
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