Chinese Chairs Ver 2.0

BTDT...lots of rest. You can still work, but it ain't fun. Take care of yourself, Stu.

Ted Calver said:

BTDT...lots of rest. You can still work, but it ain't fun. Take care of yourself, Stu.

Click to expand...

Thank you Ted

I feel MUCH better today, Sunday.
Yesterday I was in the doctors office from about 10 AM until 2 PM, got a bunch of meds from an IV drip, came home and slept until about 7 PM, woke up and finally had something to eat, took my meds and went to bed, woke this AM at 7 AM had some breakfast, very light, then back to bed until 2 PM. Just got off Skype with my daughters, boy that was a lot of sleeping. Doing what the doc says, lot of sleep, eat a bit and take my meds, the cough hurts, but it getting better.

I'm really wanting to go downstairs and at least look at my new sander that arrived yesterday....

If I only do that it would not be "Working" would it?

Bored out of my mind already.....

Ok on the way to see the doctor I popped the door open and yep, big box that my sander came in.

Waiting to see the doctor and get another booster IV.
Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heal quickly, Stu. I hope you get good news from the doc today.

And congrats on the sander. I see the Japanese delivery drivers pay about as much attention to the 'This End Up' arrows on a box as the American ones do.

Vaughn McMillan said:

Heal quickly, Stu. I hope you get good news from the doc today.

And congrats on the sander. I see the Japanese delivery drivers pay about as much attention to the 'This End Up' arrows on a box as the American ones do.

Click to expand...

Tomorrow again for an IV shot of antibiotics but overall she was pleased.

Yeah, no kidding about the Up arrows eh...?

After seeing the doctor, she wants me back again tomorrow for another IV, and then she said we would see.

I do feel much better but just walking to and from the doctor's office tuckered me out

After a rest I could not resist....



that is a lot of extra box without much packing in there...

Easy set up....



Sanded out that divot on the board, with the vacuum hooked up the DC looks really good.

For the money it seems good.

Now back to bed....

Stu, pneumonia could have come from the dust created in your shop. If you aren't wearing at least a mask, I suggest you do so upon return to the shop. Good luck on healing those lungs.

Jonathan Shively said:

Stu, pneumonia could have come from the dust created in your shop. If you aren't wearing at least a mask, I suggest you do so upon return to the shop. Good luck on healing those lungs.

Click to expand...

Yeah I thought of that, but my DC is pretty good, still I'll be wearing a mask for a while. I have these very good 3M ones with the built in valve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do not get in too big of a hurry, Stu. Pneumonia can reoccur if you don't let yourself heal completely. I hope you recovery quickly.

I only caution that Stu as I am a chronic pneumonia patient. 1977 had double pneumonia with severe dehydration. Has affected my health ever since to some degree or another. So do guard against irritating those lungs. Liking the project and your diligence at posting such wonderful explanations, videos and pictures.

I am on the mend, but still taking it easy.

I did some paperwork and I finished these back slats that I started just before I got sick



I also fixed the DC problem I forgot that the ends of the WoodRat need to be sealed up, so I did that and boy what a difference, sure the tenons I cut today were not nearly as large, but almost no dust escaped, compared to the other day...



More IV's at the doc's tomorrow but I hope to be back at it as well, not as hard to start, but I have a deadline to meet.

Cheers!

OK I'm back at it, the doctor says "Take it easy, no all night long sessions" so I'll follow that advice, but I must get back on this.

I'm looking for some input, I think I know what I'm going to do, but I would be a fool to NOT bounce this kind of stuff off the brain trust, so here we go...

These are the drawings the chair rails....



I'm sure that there are a couple of glaring problems with these drawings.

Here is the chair.....



the parts are identified as #2 & #3.

So what holds #2 seat rail in place?

Magic?

#3 is better, but the tenons are too low, IMHO, they need to go up, and as these were designed to be through tenons,
which we are NOT doing now, but the meet in the middle like I showed below....



The lengths will change too (in fact in the new drawing I made I got them wrong)


Here is the new drawing that I threw together...


The space above the tenon to the top of the seat rail should be about 15mm, I think, and the length of the tenons will be 40mm, NOT 45mm

This is what I think the seat rails should look like, in fact they will be the same parts #2 and #3 which will make it more modular, which is easier, in the long run for me.

What do you all think?

Please give me some feedback guys

Cheers!

Stu the one thing that comes to mind for me each time i have seen u mention these chairs, being somewhat aware of how they used is the issue of just how rigid do they want/ need them versus them having some flex not give? The previous version may have been imperfect but to what degree has this been used or gotten used by the artist in their act.
So my point is you go make them a perfect solid strong chair and it takes out a parameter that that has empirically been relied on in the act. There may be some "wobble" for want of a better word that they make use of. I dunno just a thought that has struck me given they have made use of chairs which on the face it are not up to scratch in some ways but have served the purpose.
Looking at the tenon in that is shown it don't look like they have much continuity of the grain through the tenon in relation to the thickness/width of the rail in fact it looks like a great place to fail. So your view of moving it up makes sense to me. But that's only my logic.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Rob Keeble said:

Stu the one thing that comes to mind for me each time i have seen u mention these chairs, being somewhat aware of how they used is the issue of just how rigid do they want/ need them versus them having some flex not give? The previous version may have been imperfect but to what degree has this been used or gotten used by the artist in their act.
So my point is you go make them a perfect solid strong chair and it takes out a parameter that that has empirically been relied on in the act. There may be some "wobble" for want of a better word that they make use of. I dunno just a thought that has struck me given they have made use of chairs which on the face it are not up to scratch in some ways but have served the purpose.
Looking at the tenon in that is shown it don't look like they have much continuity of the grain through the tenon in relation to the thickness/width of the rail in fact it looks like a great place to fail. So your view of moving it up makes sense to me. But that's only my logic.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying Rob, and we have had that debate. The chairs they have now are like jello from use and they do not like them.

They want a solid rigid chair.

Understand that the drawings provided do NOT represent the way the chairs they are using right now are actually built, they represent how someone who is not a woodworker, thought they might be built from looking at the finished product, but they are certainly a good point to start from.

Cheers!

Well I found a mistake in the setup of the WoodRat, a mistake that I made, not the machine, the fence that each piece is clamped to was not at 90 degrees to the plate that the router runs on, so all of my tenons were off by just a little

Now what to do...

I was thinking that it was not much, but it would all add up, or I could adjust each one by hand with one of my shoulder planes..... how about I fix the setup and run the pieces through the WoodRat again?

That is what I did, and the beauty of this machine is that I could replicate the setup precisely.

Here is a picture of the first pass at fixing the out of square tenon shoulder....



On the left you can see that the front half of the shoulder that was just machined is level with the back half of the shoulder, but on the right you can see the material removed from the front half of the shoulder, that has yet to be removed from the back half of the shoulder.

How much was it off you ask? Give or take about 0.4mm or 1/32" not much, but enough for me to worry about.

Yes it took some time to fix this, but I'm actually really pleased at how easy the fix was, and now for sure the WoodRat is producing perfect tenons.

Cheers!

PS any more input on the Seat Rails?

One of the big fears of cutting all the parts before assembly on a big job is that you will somehow get one of the parts wrong and won't catch it until you start putting things together. You got lucky and were able to correct it this time. I think you have definitely improved on the seat rail design. Have you had a chance to get a hands on look at the jello chairs to see if there were any obvious stress cracks anywhere?

If this is for the chairs that get stacked 12 high, with someone balanced on the top chair, then I bet your correction of the tenon will be significant. If I had the guts and strength to be on the top of that, I would not want 12 times 0.4mm error/tip/wobble.

I think the chairs would be stronger if the tenon on the rails were in fact shorter. At this point you have a slot at least 50 mm (2 inches) high through the leg, separating the inside of the leg from the outside. If the tenons were slightly shorter - perhaps only 35-40 mm long, and the mortises not through from one to the other, I expect the strength of the two sides of the leg would be far greater because the inside of the leg would be connected to the outside.

Ted Calver said:

One of the big fears of cutting all the parts before assembly on a big job is that you will somehow get one of the parts wrong and won't catch it until you start putting things together. You got lucky and were able to correct it this time. I think you have definitely improved on the seat rail design. Have you had a chance to get a hands on look at the jello chairs to see if there were any obvious stress cracks anywhere?

Click to expand...

Yeah big worry for sure Ted, that is why I've made some spares and I know I'll have to use them. The drawings are only a guide, as so many things on them are wrong, but as long as the overall dimensions remain the same I should be good.
I have not been able to get a look at the Jello Chairs in the condition they are today, as far as I know only one actually had a mortise let go, and they pinned it back in place.

Thanks

Charlie Plesums said:

If this is for the chairs that get stacked 12 high, with someone balanced on the top chair, then I bet your correction of the tenon will be significant. If I had the guts and strength to be on the top of that, I would not want 12 times 0.4mm error/tip/wobble.

Click to expand...

Basically that was my thinking Charlie.

Charlie Plesums said:

I think the chairs would be stronger if the tenon on the rails were in fact shorter. At this point you have a slot at least 50 mm (2 inches) high through the leg, separating the inside of the leg from the outside. If the tenons were slightly shorter - perhaps only 35-40 mm long, and the mortises not through from one to the other, I expect the strength of the two sides of the leg would be far greater because the inside of the leg would be connected to the outside.

Click to expand...

So you are saying the mortise/tenon would not be as deep or as tall?
Which would leave more meat in the top of the leg?

Good idea, I'll do a mock-up and see how it looks.

Thanks

Stuart Ablett said:

So you are saying the mortise/tenon would not be as deep or as tall?
Which would leave more meat in the top of the leg?

Good idea, I'll do a mock-up and see how it looks.

Thanks

Click to expand...

The current picture/plan leaves the two top halves (inside and outside) of the leg fairly tall and narrow. If the mortises were less deep there would be a piece in the center of the leg holding the inside and outside of the leg together, somewhat like an I beam. (Long ago I had a leg split with sliding dovetails into two sides of the leg, so I am gun shy about weakening the leg.)

Making the tenons less wide/tall would have little advantage, in my opinion, since the extra material at the top of the leg is all end grain, and adds little strength. My gut reaction is that you would be better off with more surface area for glue on the face on the tenon and sides of the mortise. Thus I recommend keeping the current tenon width, keep the tenon thickness 1/3 to 1/2 the overall thickness, and make the tenon length shorter. Most of my mortises are no more than 1 1/4 inch deep (35-40 mm deep).