A minor digression, more buttons

Ryan Mooney

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The Gorge Area, Oregon
Slight deviation from our scheduled agenda. I'd suckered loml into knitting some hat like things for my cousin's kid (technically we colluded but that's not important here). The problem was that it requires two large buttons for "eyes" (decoration I dunno, I'm a turner not a clothing designer) and the selection hereabouts is both thin and overpriced so of to the shop I go.

First turn up a glue block, we'll use hit glue here cause we don't need much strength. Actually made two of these so I could pipeline things just a little bit. If you were making very many a dozen or so would be better.
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Cut some blanks, a bit under 1/4" thick and a bit bigger than you need. I dubbed the corners on the first couple but then decided it was faster just to do that at the lathe and left the rest square.
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A bit of India ink in the groove on some. For this if cut the groove, paint the ink in, let it dry for a minute and then use the skew to shear scrape of the top to get a nice clean line.
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Got a handful done. These aren't exceptionally fast to make, but was getting a bit faster. Top four are spalted maple finished with CA knocked back with 1500 grit, the rest are lilac with India ink and woodturners finish. A couple of the later bled a smidge so I need to sand them back a little and recoat.
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Also need to drill holes still but was going to do a couple of handfuls more first.

I'm thinking I might try out some thin double sided tape fit the next batch as the hot melt is kind of slow to apply and pop of for this.

Still working on the swap item as well but am not yet to and official update point.
 
Yeah, the ink doesn't seem to bleed into the wood like a stain would, especially with a tight grained eid like the lilac so I can get a pretty clean break in the color. It's not actually my original idea, but I can't recall who to credit for it :eek:
 
Those look great, Ryan. :thumb: The ink looks great.

On the subject of India ink, a little off topic but a precautionary tale: I once used India ink to color some clear epoxy. Bad mistake. For some reason, the ink appeared to have prevented the epoxy from hardening. It was a large batch mixed from one of the double-barrel syringe packages, so I'm certain the ratio between the two components was right. Five or more years later, the epoxy was still flexible, and could be indented with a fingernail.
 
I'll keep that in mind if I ever need soft epoxy ;)

One computer room I worked in had had a bad mix of epoxy for the floor coating. It was about 8-10 years old when I was there and still had wet spots. It was covered by a raised floor so it wasn't normally a problem, but if you were running cables underneath the raised floor you had to plan ahead and not wear your good trousers that day!

I didn't expect the wtf to cause the ink to run either (and mostly only on the one), it's been OK with shellac and oil based top coats, but the water based stuff was no bueno, maybe if I'd let it dry longer first... Not sure.
 
Buttons look good, wonder how a sharpie would do in place of ink. My guess is it would bleed ...dunno. If not it would be less risky to apply and then all colors of rainbow could be used as in a set of color markers.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Previous tests the sharpie soaked into the wood more which made it hard to to shave off the excess and did have a bit more fuzzing around the edges. It would certainly be easier to stay within the lines with it though. Presealing with a bit of shellac seemed to work, and I bet CA would as well, although I haven't tried that. I've been using a bottle of speedball ink and a fine paintbrush here, it looks like with a smidge of practice you could get some nice details this way. Mostly I chose the India ink in this case because it stayed on surface nicely so I could cheat and shave off the excess :)

Not sure what you mean by "less risky"?

As for colors, I've only tried the black but you can get India ink in other hues as well: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BYTZVU for instance (ph Martin sells a set of 24 colors). Bit pricier than a set of sharpies though.
 
Tried out the double sided tape. Its better all right, but I think I need stronger tape - no idea what this was supposed to be for... ought to get some carpet tape and try that perhaps (not sure if this is carpet tape or not but it seemed a bit on the weak side). I tossed a few buttons and had to replace the tape on pretty much every button but it was still faster and simpler than dealing with the hot glue.

I think the real ticket for production speed here might be a vacuum chuck but am not really ready to spring for that at the moment and I think I'm done with buttons for a while anyway.

The other trick was making the "glue block" (tape block) just a smidge smaller than the size of the finished button so you can do a small relief cut on the back, saves a lot of off lathe cleanup (still pre-sanded the backs flat before mounting - that goes pretty quick).

Risky is me and a bottle of ink. lol

A fair point!! ;) I did put down significant amounts of paper before doing anything.
 
Tried out the double sided tape. Its better all right, but I think I need stronger tape - no idea what this was supposed to be for... ought to get some carpet tape and try that perhaps (not sure if this is carpet tape or not but it seemed a bit on the weak side). I tossed a few buttons and had to replace the tape on pretty much every button but it was still faster and simpler than dealing with the hot glue.

I think the real ticket for production speed here might be a vacuum chuck but am not really ready to spring for that at the moment and I think I'm done with buttons for a while anyway.

Ryan,

Look up Frugal Vacuum Chucks. You can get a complete set-up under $200! I am building my own and looks like I will get it built for about the same dollars.

The trousers story reminded me of my first day on a new job. I usually bought semi-round toe cowboy boots two pair at a time and used one pair as work/running around boots until they got too rough looking then delegated them to just work boots and broke out the other pair for "dress". I had just got two new pairs of boots when I was called to go work a new construction job. As usual no info just what I was doing. Pulled on my new boots and headed to work, a sweetener plant in an oil patch. The entire work area was about eight inches deep in crude oil and dirt sludge. Weren't a happy camper!

(No need to thank me for the vacuum chuck info, always glad to help a friend spend money!:D)

Hu
 
Yesterdays endeavours added to the pile. Man these things are sloooww (or maybe its just me).
buttons.jpg

Ryan,

Look up Frugal Vacuum Chucks. You can get a complete set-up under $200! I am building my own and looks like I will get it built for about the same dollars.

(No need to thank me for the vacuum chuck info, always glad to help a friend spend money!:D)

Hu

Weird, all of the links there look like they've been clicked on before.. dunno how that happened :rolleyes: :rofl:

Its on the maybe list, I don't know if it would pull enough vacuum to work on something this small or not.. I think I need to play with the hot melt some more, there may be a way to make it come off cleaner... maybe..
 
Yesterdays endeavours added to the pile. Man these things are sloooww (or maybe its just me).
View attachment 92080



Its on the maybe list, I don't know if it would pull enough vacuum to work on something this small or not.. I think I need to play with the hot melt some more, there may be a way to make it come off cleaner... maybe..



I forget the math but the vacuum works out to about ten pounds per square inch of holding force, somewhere between ten and twenty pounds on your buttons. While that sounds like a good bit I don't think it is enough to hold against side pressure. The vacuum chuck is still a mighty handy item. The camera for hollowing got pushed back with all of the new lathe commotion and aggravations with issues with the new machine(s) but I finally have that taken care of. Soon as I get this vacuum chuck working I'm going to get a camera and sort that out too.

Hu
 
I forget the math but the vacuum works out to about ten pounds per square inch of holding force, somewhere between ten and twenty pounds on your buttons. While that sounds like a good bit I don't think it is enough to hold against side pressure. The vacuum chuck is still a mighty handy item. The camera for hollowing got pushed back with all of the new lathe commotion and aggravations with issues with the new machine(s) but I finally have that taken care of. Soon as I get this vacuum chuck working I'm going to get a camera and sort that out too.

Hu

Based on my understanding that holding power is area (in inches) * PSI here's a handy table of holding force in lbs as a function of radius of the surface area in the chuck and the vacuum pressure applied in psi. Also illustrating that your bistro math was pretty much spot on :thumb:

Based on this a 1" button (0.5" radius) could get maybe as much as 18lbs of holding force assuming close to zero system loss (haha right) and a pretty beefy pump to start with. Smaller buttons get sadder quickly. So yeah, a bit more than can be easily flicked off with my little finger but not going to cut the mustard for any turning. Alrighty then we'll scratch that idea (not that a vacuum chuck wouldn't be handy for some bowls still and there's the veneering thing.. yeah one of these days).

r@10lbs@11lbs@12lbs@13lbs@14lbs@15lbs@16lbs@17lbs@18lbs@19lbs@20lbs@21lbs@22lbs@23lbs@24lbs@25lbs@26lbs
0.25 2.0lbs 2.2lbs 2.4lbs 2.6lbs 2.7lbs 2.9lbs 3.1lbs 3.3lbs 3.5lbs 3.7lbs 3.9lbs 4.1lbs 4.3lbs 4.5lbs 4.7lbs 4.9lbs 5.1lbs
0.50 7.9lbs 8.6lbs 9.4lbs 10.2lbs 11.0lbs 11.8lbs 12.6lbs 13.4lbs 14.1lbs 14.9lbs 15.7lbs 16.5lbs 17.3lbs 18.1lbs 18.8lbs 19.6lbs 20.4lbs
0.75 17.7lbs 19.4lbs 21.2lbs 23.0lbs 24.7lbs 26.5lbs 28.3lbs 30.0lbs 31.8lbs 33.6lbs 35.3lbs 37.1lbs 38.9lbs 40.6lbs 42.4lbs 44.2lbs 45.9lbs
1.00 31.4lbs 34.6lbs 37.7lbs 40.8lbs 44.0lbs 47.1lbs 50.3lbs 53.4lbs 56.5lbs 59.7lbs 62.8lbs 66.0lbs 69.1lbs 72.3lbs 75.4lbs 78.5lbs 81.7lbs
1.25 49.1lbs 54.0lbs 58.9lbs 63.8lbs 68.7lbs 73.6lbs 78.5lbs 83.4lbs 88.4lbs 93.3lbs 98.2lbs103.1lbs108.0lbs112.9lbs117.8lbs122.7lbs127.6lbs
1.50 70.7lbs 77.8lbs 84.8lbs 91.9lbs 99.0lbs106.0lbs113.1lbs120.2lbs127.2lbs134.3lbs141.4lbs148.4lbs155.5lbs162.6lbs169.6lbs176.7lbs183.8lbs
1.75 96.2lbs105.8lbs115.5lbs125.1lbs134.7lbs144.3lbs153.9lbs163.6lbs173.2lbs182.8lbs192.4lbs202.0lbs211.7lbs221.3lbs230.9lbs240.5lbs250.1lbs
2.00125.7lbs138.2lbs150.8lbs163.4lbs175.9lbs188.5lbs201.1lbs213.6lbs226.2lbs238.8lbs251.3lbs263.9lbs276.5lbs289.0lbs301.6lbs314.2lbs326.7lbs
2.25159.0lbs174.9lbs190.9lbs206.8lbs222.7lbs238.6lbs254.5lbs270.4lbs286.3lbs302.2lbs318.1lbs334.0lbs349.9lbs365.8lbs381.7lbs397.6lbs413.5lbs
2.50196.3lbs216.0lbs235.6lbs255.3lbs274.9lbs294.5lbs314.2lbs333.8lbs353.4lbs373.1lbs392.7lbs412.3lbs432.0lbs451.6lbs471.2lbs490.9lbs510.5lbs
2.75237.6lbs261.3lbs285.1lbs308.9lbs332.6lbs356.4lbs380.1lbs403.9lbs427.6lbs451.4lbs475.2lbs498.9lbs522.7lbs546.4lbs570.2lbs594.0lbs617.7lbs
3.00282.7lbs311.0lbs339.3lbs367.6lbs395.8lbs424.1lbs452.4lbs480.7lbs508.9lbs537.2lbs565.5lbs593.8lbs622.0lbs650.3lbs678.6lbs706.9lbs735.1lbs
3.25331.8lbs365.0lbs398.2lbs431.4lbs464.6lbs497.7lbs530.9lbs564.1lbs597.3lbs630.5lbs663.7lbs696.8lbs730.0lbs763.2lbs796.4lbs829.6lbs862.8lbs
3.50384.8lbs423.3lbs461.8lbs500.3lbs538.8lbs577.3lbs615.8lbs654.2lbs692.7lbs731.2lbs769.7lbs808.2lbs846.7lbs885.1lbs923.6lbs962.1lbs1000.6lbs
3.75441.8lbs486.0lbs530.1lbs574.3lbs618.5lbs662.7lbs706.9lbs751.0lbs795.2lbs839.4lbs883.6lbs927.8lbs971.9lbs1016.1lbs1060.3lbs1104.5lbs1148.6lbs
4.00502.7lbs552.9lbs603.2lbs653.5lbs703.7lbs754.0lbs804.2lbs854.5lbs904.8lbs955.0lbs1005.3lbs1055.6lbs1105.8lbs1156.1lbs1206.4lbs1256.6lbs1306.9lbs


For the record.. The rather icky python code used to generate the above.
import math
def holding(rp):
r, p = rp
print '[tr][td]%1.2f[/td]' % r
print ('[td]%5.1f[/td]'*len(p)) % tuple(math.pi*r*r*i for i in p)
print '[/tr]'

def go():
p = range(10,27)
print 'table="width: 500"]'
print ('[tr][td]r[/td] ' + '[td]@%dlbs[/td]' * len(p) + '[/tr]\n') % tuple(p)
_ = map(holding, [(r, p) for r in [i/4.0 for i in range(1, 17)]])
print '[/table]'
 
Double sided tape works great in cases like this. Recommended for use on pendant jigs. I picked some up from Lowes in the carpet section although I suspect any BORG or the like would have it.
 
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