Frank Fusco
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OK. Wassa CBN?
BTW I use concrete nails for occasional projects. They are very tough and hard. Can be cut with a hacksaw but are hard on blades.
Putting the new Griz 766 through it's paces
- Thread starter hu lowery
- Start date
OK. Wassa CBN?
BTW I use concrete nails for occasional projects. They are very tough and hard. Can be cut with a hacksaw but are hard on blades.
Ed Thomas
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Hex drive bits work ok. Not too hard, not too soft.
Jay Caughron
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I think they are talking about the Diamond gritted grinding wheels Frank
Ed Thomas
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Not diamond ... CBN = cubic boron nitride
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Almost as hard as diamond but not actually diamond (and has some advantages over diamond for the grinding use case):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride#Cubic_boron_nitride
The grinding wheels are here: http://woodturnerswonders.com/collections/cbn-wheels
and here: http://d-waytools.com/cbn-grinding-wheels
Jay Caughron
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AAHHHHAAA I learned something too
hu lowery
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all I know about CBN wheels and a little more! Need I say (long)?
Frank,
All of the answers you have gotten are accurate. CBN is a very little softer than diamond. Diamond is better for sharpening some things, CBN sharpens other things like our particle metal tools better. The CBN is electroplated onto a steel or aluminum wheel and will cut some things that will destroy a diamond wheel. A sleepless night and I forget the "what" and "why" at the moment. The wheels are very long lasting, stay the same size, and run very cool compared to a standard aluminum oxide type wheel. In addition, the grit wheels are sometimes said to just tear out the hardest particles in some of the particle steels like Doug Thompson uses leaving the very edge of your tool only the softer metal the particles are imbedded in so while the bonded grit wheels get the tool just as sharp, the edge of your tool is soft metal. I am buying the particle steel tools when I can so going to CBN wheels from somebody is a must if the claims of the softer wheels not cutting the small particles, only tearing them out, are true.
The wheels have been made in Europe and very pricey. Small specialty wheels like wheels to sharpen chainsaw chains can run three or four hundred dollars and eight inch grinder wheels were in the same neighborhood. The chinese wheels have flooded the market and crashed the price with a handful of people starting to supply the wheels. With the wheels coming from china and some competition you can get wheels as cheap as $130. So far almost everyone has been very pleased with the chinese wheels, one instance where we don't seem to be getting junk. Not fond of buying chinese but I am buying wheels I can't get elsewhere for about half the price of similar wheels from Austria. The wheels from Austria are steel wheels with the CBN bonded to them and I doubt any of my grinders can spin two steel wheels anyway. Because of material and design my aluminum wheels probably weigh about half what a pair of the steel wheels would weigh.
CBN is the fad thing at the moment as are the particle steel tools. However CBN has been around many years, just not in widespread usage. It has stood the test of time in some very demanding environments, production lines. Pretty sure it is here to stay for sharpening harder metals. It loads up badly sharpening mild steel or grinding aluminum or other soft metals. It can be cleaned but best to use grit wheels for some purposes still. The CBN doesn't completely replace other wheels.
As already mentioned in this thread, fine grit CBN grinder wheels are pretty new on the market. I stuck my neck out a bit buying the 220 and 350 grit wheels since the common wheels are 80 and 180 grit. Electroplated CBN cuts faster and perhaps smoother than the bonded grit wheels so the grits can't be compared exactly, an 80 grit CBN wheel doesn't perform exactly the same as an 80 grit stone wheel as an example.
A final thing, because the CBN wheels are finely machined and then a thin coating of grit put on the working surface they come trued and balanced. While they can be dressed they rarely or never need it and usually can just be dropped onto a grinder. I didn't price them elsewhere but purchased a set of the spherical self aligning washers that serve the same purpose as backing plates on a stone wheel when I bought the CBN wheels. All in the same shipping price so I figured I wouldn't beat the real cost to my door elsewhere even if I found them cheaper.
All I know about CBN and a little bit more! I'll soon know more than most about the fine grit wheels. That part is a $300 gamble. I bought the entire line of Starbond CA glues about a year ago to test for myself too. Mostly they have sat unused in my refrigerator. I realized how little I like using CA glue after I bought all of that. Their new KEG glues that are supposed to be four times stronger are nice to work with fresh out of the icebox. Once warmed to room temperature I danged near needed supplied air to use the one I tried. Eyes, nose, and throat burning, strong odor! The odorless CA glue uses a different hardener and is what I will probably use in the future when I have to use CA glue.
Hu
Frank,
All of the answers you have gotten are accurate. CBN is a very little softer than diamond. Diamond is better for sharpening some things, CBN sharpens other things like our particle metal tools better. The CBN is electroplated onto a steel or aluminum wheel and will cut some things that will destroy a diamond wheel. A sleepless night and I forget the "what" and "why" at the moment. The wheels are very long lasting, stay the same size, and run very cool compared to a standard aluminum oxide type wheel. In addition, the grit wheels are sometimes said to just tear out the hardest particles in some of the particle steels like Doug Thompson uses leaving the very edge of your tool only the softer metal the particles are imbedded in so while the bonded grit wheels get the tool just as sharp, the edge of your tool is soft metal. I am buying the particle steel tools when I can so going to CBN wheels from somebody is a must if the claims of the softer wheels not cutting the small particles, only tearing them out, are true.
The wheels have been made in Europe and very pricey. Small specialty wheels like wheels to sharpen chainsaw chains can run three or four hundred dollars and eight inch grinder wheels were in the same neighborhood. The chinese wheels have flooded the market and crashed the price with a handful of people starting to supply the wheels. With the wheels coming from china and some competition you can get wheels as cheap as $130. So far almost everyone has been very pleased with the chinese wheels, one instance where we don't seem to be getting junk. Not fond of buying chinese but I am buying wheels I can't get elsewhere for about half the price of similar wheels from Austria. The wheels from Austria are steel wheels with the CBN bonded to them and I doubt any of my grinders can spin two steel wheels anyway. Because of material and design my aluminum wheels probably weigh about half what a pair of the steel wheels would weigh.
CBN is the fad thing at the moment as are the particle steel tools. However CBN has been around many years, just not in widespread usage. It has stood the test of time in some very demanding environments, production lines. Pretty sure it is here to stay for sharpening harder metals. It loads up badly sharpening mild steel or grinding aluminum or other soft metals. It can be cleaned but best to use grit wheels for some purposes still. The CBN doesn't completely replace other wheels.
As already mentioned in this thread, fine grit CBN grinder wheels are pretty new on the market. I stuck my neck out a bit buying the 220 and 350 grit wheels since the common wheels are 80 and 180 grit. Electroplated CBN cuts faster and perhaps smoother than the bonded grit wheels so the grits can't be compared exactly, an 80 grit CBN wheel doesn't perform exactly the same as an 80 grit stone wheel as an example.
A final thing, because the CBN wheels are finely machined and then a thin coating of grit put on the working surface they come trued and balanced. While they can be dressed they rarely or never need it and usually can just be dropped onto a grinder. I didn't price them elsewhere but purchased a set of the spherical self aligning washers that serve the same purpose as backing plates on a stone wheel when I bought the CBN wheels. All in the same shipping price so I figured I wouldn't beat the real cost to my door elsewhere even if I found them cheaper.
All I know about CBN and a little bit more! I'll soon know more than most about the fine grit wheels. That part is a $300 gamble. I bought the entire line of Starbond CA glues about a year ago to test for myself too. Mostly they have sat unused in my refrigerator. I realized how little I like using CA glue after I bought all of that. Their new KEG glues that are supposed to be four times stronger are nice to work with fresh out of the icebox. Once warmed to room temperature I danged near needed supplied air to use the one I tried. Eyes, nose, and throat burning, strong odor! The odorless CA glue uses a different hardener and is what I will probably use in the future when I have to use CA glue.
Hu
hu lowery
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- 445
The wheels arrived today
OK, it seems a little extreme to put a message in the thread just to announce that my wheels arrived priority mail today. However, these wheels weren't the average shipment. The priority mail box had a little padding then three boxes in it, the two wheels and a free gift. Even the 30LED magnetic lamp with on/off switch that was tossed in as a free gift was carefully packed. The wheels were each in their own fitted box with about an inch of closed cell foam all around and layers top and bottom of the box. Everything included in the box had a layer of foam between it and anything else. I had bought the self centering washers since I am putting these wheels on a cheap grinder and it may need a little help with alignment. Each wheel had it's washer set packed with it, not the washers tossed in on the side. The washers weren't in a box but in two heavy gauge plastic bags each.
The wheels are the grits I ordered and are laser engraved with Woodturner's Wonders, the wheel size, and the grit on each. They come with a lifetime guarantee on material and workmanship and instructions on the care and feeding of the wheels.
I have received very high dollar instrumentation that was not nearly as well packed as these grinding wheels. Obviously Ken Rizza is proud of his product and wants the end user to be equally proud.
I received the wheels too late to start install this evening but should have them installed in the next day or two. Hopefully they will live up to all of the hype! I already have a strong feeling I bought from the right person. Everything about our dealings indicates class on Ken Rizza's part. With a name like that no doubt a good Irish lad, another plus!
(the dust and fingerprint smudges in the image are my doing. I think I did wipe off all of the drool.)
Hu
OK, it seems a little extreme to put a message in the thread just to announce that my wheels arrived priority mail today. However, these wheels weren't the average shipment. The priority mail box had a little padding then three boxes in it, the two wheels and a free gift. Even the 30LED magnetic lamp with on/off switch that was tossed in as a free gift was carefully packed. The wheels were each in their own fitted box with about an inch of closed cell foam all around and layers top and bottom of the box. Everything included in the box had a layer of foam between it and anything else. I had bought the self centering washers since I am putting these wheels on a cheap grinder and it may need a little help with alignment. Each wheel had it's washer set packed with it, not the washers tossed in on the side. The washers weren't in a box but in two heavy gauge plastic bags each.
The wheels are the grits I ordered and are laser engraved with Woodturner's Wonders, the wheel size, and the grit on each. They come with a lifetime guarantee on material and workmanship and instructions on the care and feeding of the wheels.
I have received very high dollar instrumentation that was not nearly as well packed as these grinding wheels. Obviously Ken Rizza is proud of his product and wants the end user to be equally proud.
I received the wheels too late to start install this evening but should have them installed in the next day or two. Hopefully they will live up to all of the hype! I already have a strong feeling I bought from the right person. Everything about our dealings indicates class on Ken Rizza's part. With a name like that no doubt a good Irish lad, another plus!
(the dust and fingerprint smudges in the image are my doing. I think I did wipe off all of the drool.)
Hu
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That's the sort of packing material you end up saving in case you ever need to move the things even if you're not ever planning on doing so!
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Those look real nice, Hu. I'll be staying tuned for your review of the 350 grit wheel. I've used a 120 grit (or maybe it was an 80 grit? I've slept since then) and was amazed with how smooth the finish was on a Thompson bowl gouge.
hu lowery
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