? 4 Leo re:software

Carol Reed

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...or anyone who wants to chime in.

I have not yet set up my CNC computer. I did get a PC w/WinXP for that. It will be dedicated to the machine. My daily computer is a MacBook. Trying to decide whether I should learn Vetric or Fusion 360. Envisioned CNC application could be almost anything. Not fond of restrictions.

I have some AutoCAD experience (~15 years ago). Got fairly proficient at it. Know nothing about Vetric. Reasonably proficient in SketchUP. Machine language is to be Mach 3.

What do I need to consider before deciding? I have to learn something, so which ought it to be?

Thanks.
 
I don't know enough about Fusion yet. I am also an AutoCAD user from 1987 - 2004 professionally. Lately more into Solidworks.

Fusion is full 3D and does have CAM capabilities, that seem to pretty well rounded. Seems to be pretty functional. Not sure how user friendly, but I did create some simple G-code pretty easily. But then, I am pretty well versed in Cad and Cam, so I know how to get around and get what I want. It may not be so east for everyone. Not sure if it supports 4-th axis, at least the way I want to see it. I don't see it to be like AutoCAD. It's more like mechanical Desktop. I have never seen inventor, but I think it all started as Mechanical desktop for Autodesk.

The Vectric products are very user friendly, and very functional.

I am always pushing boundaries, so, you should not take my explorations to mean there is a lack of functionality to Vectric. I am very impressed with what CAN be done in Vectric. The legs for my machine impress me. With some imagination, and creativity, there is a LOT more to learn. But, there IS a price tag to go with it.

Price wise - you cannot beat FREE. Fusion 360 is FREE to the hobbyist. Actually Autodesk has pretty much been on that bandwagon for as long as I can remember. They never really did anything to stop pirating of AutoCAD to the home user, in fact encouraged it. It helps them get users familiar with their software.

Try Fusion360 - you have nothing to loose. I get the feeling it is mechanical in nature, not so much artistic. For me, I really want the artistic side of things. I like the mechanical also, but I use artistic more.

I was playing with Fusion tonight, but it crashed on me. Might be my fault.

I have also been looking at Rhino and RhinoCAM. Great artistic full 3D functionality. Steep learning curve. Higher price tag.

As to limitations, they all have something they will fall short on. To get FULL functionality, flawlessly, that will be in the 10's of thousands of dollars.

If you do go Vectric, you can do it is stages starting with Cut2D desktop and upgrading to Aspire. Fusion is free for non-commercial users.

Vectric is about the lowest learning curve, very easy to use.

I guess if you ask specific questions about what you want to do to start, then ramp up the questions to where you "want" to go, I can help steer a little. I do not know all things, but I can maybe help.
 
Where I 'want' to go requires a complex answer. My initial ideas are artistic in nature but my brain is also very mechanical; i.e., I can see making jigs again with it. I did fairly well with that. I also see a niche market around here for being a small job shop for high tech businesses. The guy who owns the makers space (Dan) is using the big laser machine after hours for this purpose and he often gets requests for stuff that is better made with a CNC. We have talked about collaborating on some projects. As he develops the space with woodworking tools, I will be his woodworking instructor.

That's all the 'hard' information I have at this point. My plan is to develop multiple little streams of revenue to finish my house and feather my nest going forward. So product line is widely varied. And I don't want to have to learn multiple pieces of software of I can avoid it.
 
carol, as far as what is going on here, this is about all i can say at the moment. as a computer guy, i would say upgrade to either windows 7 or 10 first, as xp is no longer supported, you are on your own if something happens to it. as for cad, i've worked with sketchup for years now, designing our furniture and such here, and it works pretty good for me. i've used it in my own way to create the vectors for various designs. as for other software, i've picked up the cut2d from vectric, and haven't looked back, easy to use, and darned near fun as well. later on this spring, i'll be picking up the vcarve program as well, to cover the bases that cut2d doesn't. as for projects and what to do with the machine, i started from the point of working up the projects on sketchup, and then getting the machine, rather than getting the machine, and rapping myself on the head with a mallet (which usually kick starts the design process), and asking myself "now what do i do with it?". hopefully some of this helps you, but, i would upgrade the operating system first.
 
i would say upgrade to either windows 7 or 10 first, as xp is no longer supported, you are on your own if something happens to it.


Technically, Windows 7 and earlier are no longer supported. Unlike Windows 8, I haven't heard all that much bad about windows 10, except for a few data collection issues. I do agree with Dan that XP is a liability and you should upgrade as soon as possible to something else.
 
as far as 10 goes, i've used it for a while on the laptop that is the brain for the cnc, been very stable, and so far all products and programs have worked very well with it.
 
As long at you're not getting on the internet with XP, it will be fine for running the cnc, stick with it. Just use a usb drive to move files to it and don't connect it to the network.

I'm just now starting to try fusion out and do the tutorials. I've been looking for something that can do bezier curves and meshes better than sketchup. I bought the Turbocad home version as it was advertised as 3d, but it didn't really have what I was looking for. Blender is another I started to try, but it's a totally different beast to me. Since the Fusion is free, I'd give it a try and see if it will fit your needs. For design vcarve works well for importing and carving intricate drawings, pockets, cutouts, etc. If you're looking to do 3d models you'll probably need to look at Fusion or another product.
 
Although I dug in my heels about paying for CAD/CAM software for my CNC, I haven't been the least bit disappointed in Vectric VCarve. I'm still using Desktop for now, but will update to Pro in a few weeks. I found VCarve pretty easy to learn overall; between the tutorials, online forum and drawing on Leo's expertise here, I got into it quite easy.
 
Where I 'want' to go requires a complex answer. My initial ideas are artistic in nature but my brain is also very mechanical; i.e., I can see making jigs again with it. I did fairly well with that. I also see a niche market around here for being a small job shop for high tech businesses. The guy who owns the makers space (Dan) is using the big laser machine after hours for this purpose and he often gets requests for stuff that is better made with a CNC. We have talked about collaborating on some projects. As he develops the space with woodworking tools, I will be his woodworking instructor.

That's all the 'hard' information I have at this point. My plan is to develop multiple little streams of revenue to finish my house and feather my nest going forward. So product line is widely varied. And I don't want to have to learn multiple pieces of software of I can avoid it.

Carol, believe it or not I am 100% TOTALLY, understanding your answer. I agree with you all the way. Vectric is a nice product line in that it is the same from cut 2D through Aspire. Each level is the lower level plus a few more added features. I could do a tutorial in Aspire on how to do vector editing and it would be exactly the same in Cut2D. It's got a relatively low learning curve, and has the best support I have even see, even from software companies in the 10's of thousands of dollars. HOWEVER, there IS a ceiling. It would be like 12 foot ceilings in your bedroom. Most people will never need to go beyond, but some people will need to. I have a pretty hefty drive to go further with CNC. I do this at work also. We bought a $420,000 grinder last year, mostly on my recommendation. Now I am driving the project to places the company has never been before. All I am trying to say here is that Vectric is more powerful than most people will need.

Soo - where is the ceiling on Vectric? It's in that FULL 3D stuff I talk about. Vectric goes up to and including BAS Relief. NOT beyond. The 3D in Vectric is on one face only. You cannot make a sphere. There is room for innovative creativity and some ability to find workarounds but that is what it is.

I think if you got into Vectric at V-Carve Pro, you would have your hands full for a long long time. The limitation to V-Carve Pro, is the ability to create and edit the 3D BAS Relief models. Other than that V-Carve pro is a very powerful software.

NOW - to go beyond and into the world of real 3D with the artistic side, I am thinking Rhino and RhinoCAM is the place to go.

I "DO" have some significant background with Solidworks and Unigraphics and Mechanical Desktop modeling software. That is all big bucks stuff, and all very mechanical. During my training with certified Solidworks instructors I challenged the instructor with a question about modeling a maple leaf. That proved to be an insurmountable task for the certified instructor. A computer mouse - sure. A Maple leaf - no. I can do a Maple leaf in Aspire at a fraction the cost. I can do the computer mouse also. That is the difference between artistic and mechanical. Still that does NOT make Aspire better. On the contrary, Solidworks runs circles around Aspire in so many other ways.

Soo - in summary - it sounds like V-Carve Pro will fill the bill for you. You can upgrade to Aspire at a later time. You could get V-Carve Pro to pay for Aspire with a couple of paying jobs.

IF - you really want the whole enchilada - perhaps Rhino and RhinoCAM. More money, steeper learning curve, but full 3, 4, and 5 axis support. I think this is where I will end up some day.

I know this is a complex answer, but you did pose a complex scenerio.
 
Thanks, Leo. Exactly the evaluation process I was looking for. No point buying a Harley when a plastic Big Wheel is the place to begin. (Not that vCarve is the Big Bike.) I like the idea of one package building on another. I also like thrifty. I may not live in the Yankee northeast but thrifty plays well in California too.

I don't have a foreseeable need for true 3D. Maybe someday.
 
Technically, Windows 7 and earlier are no longer supported. Unlike Windows 8, I haven't heard all that much bad about windows 10, except for a few data collection issues. I do agree with Dan that XP is a liability and you should upgrade as soon as possible to something else.

If you can be on the later versions of Windows, I recommend it. HOWEVER three of our 7 computers cannot go past XP and two of those are running in daily use. Microsoft said "no problem upgrading... just replace the display adapter." Those three are laptops, where replacing the display adapter is replacing the mother board which is replacing the computer. One of the laptops is my wife's - the one she, as a CPA, takes to clients and often connects to their network.

One of our computers is running Windows 7. Pretty stable but does not network well in a network that is mixed technology.

Another computer has a license for Win 7 but was purchased with XP installed. We have left it on XP because it works better than the Win 7 computer.

Another computer running Win XP is used primarily as a print server for older printers that don't have the modern printer interface. Works flawlessly, networked to all the other computers.

One computer is running Win 8.1. When I tried the upgrade to Win 10 (or should I say Win X), my scanner and color printer did not work, and the network connections fought me. I went back to Win 8.1 but will try Win X again some time.

Bottom line, it might be nice to be on the latest technology, but Win XP still works fine. Just don't expect MS to support it, and DO NOT install the final "security" fixes that MS provided - they crippled the system in subtle ways, and I had to back out the last few months of XP "upgrades".

Most of the $100 Windows computers you buy today are running Win XP. Don't be afraid of them. But if you get a $100 computer running Win 10, grab it, and get one for me too.
 
I have been in the habit lately of buying refurbished computers from Best Buy. I have bought several, including my Lenovo notebook, and the computer on the Osprey. I am all on Win10 except the Osprey which is win 7. I had upgraded it to 10, but had some concerns about my CNC operating software and reverted it back to 7. I will try upgrading to 10 now that the Osprey is operational. When that is done, I will have 4 desktop and 1 notebook in my home up on win 10.

My Larken 2424 CNC is on a XP computer and will stay that way. I will be selling it.

My notebook was under $300. My desktop with i5 was $175 I don't remember the others, but I just do not like to spend big money on computers.
 
Most of the $100 Windows computers you buy today are running Win XP. Don't be afraid of them. But if you get a $100 computer running Win 10, grab it, and get one for me too.

I wouldn't use those XP computers much on the internet, but you can get some very good deals sub 250$ that will run win 10. There are lot of companies out there that do lease returns on machines and once they are refurbed, work quite well.

Heck, I just slapped an SSD in an older work computer of mine and put linux on it and it's working great. Faster than I ever remember before.

I'm in the process of mostly switching over to linux now, with the exception that I'll be running a virtual machine on them running win 7 to support the few windows only apps I can't do with out.
 
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