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Thread: Patent or no Patent this has got to be one of my next projects

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada

    Patent or no Patent this has got to be one of my next projects

    Well i got home today to find the Lee Valley monthly Newsletter in my email box.

    Upon inspection i find in the usual section on old patented tools a tool which just struck me as something well within the range of being made at home and being a pretty useful tool.

    Here is the article its a Wooden Plane with an adjustable convex or concave sole. I think it will be a nice project to have a go at.

    What do you guys think and what blade would you consider being suitable for it.

    Here is a link to the article for those interested in more detail .

    I figure perhaps i can go to the local metal supply and see what steel sheet they have available that would do. Would be nice if i could get something thats got a bit of spring in it and not just carbon steel. Dont know how a piece of real stainless would do, that stuff is not easy to work with by hand.

    I am thinking a laminated walnut block to start and to have a couple of nice large brass thumb screws going into an insert on either end for fastening.

    Just strikes me as a great project not that i have use for a convex plane but they not that available today so why not.

    Anyone know how brass goes with steel ? I have no clue on metal reacting with metal other than knowing they do.

    Wondering how to fix that area around the throat down. Thats where stainless would be a beast if it needed smoothing out.

    whats your thought?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    You could try to use phosphorous bronze sheet, it is easy to work and has elasticity or springy capability as steel.
    Best regards,

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    I also dream of a shop with north light where my hands can be busy, my soul rest and my mind wander...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    East Freeetown, Massachusetts
    The patent is 1848 - near 170 years old. My guess is that it is no longer valid.

    You could use the exact same design and still patent it as yours.

    I like it. Do we need a hand plane for inside and outside curves - of course we do.

    I would look into spring steel for the bendable steel.

    I would make the blade out of AISI-A2 heat treated to Rc 55-57 and stabilized.

    I might make the block out of Rosewood.

    I would use steel or brass threaded inserts for the shoe screws.

    After a few prototypes, I think even a bronze body may be cool and is well within the scope of a CNC router.

    If you are interested in marketing this and want some CNC work done - I am more than interested. I can also use Solidworks to make a complete solid model CAD design, with full drawing documentation.

    I have sources for grinding, CNC wire cutting, heat treating and such.

    In fact I do believe these is some significant market interest in high quality North American made hand tools. A joint venture between US and CA would attract some attention.

    I would love to be part of a high quality tool making conglomeration.

    edited in:

    This guy is an inspiration to me.

    I know there are others also
    Last edited by Leo Voisine; 01-30-2016 at 03:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    The Gorge Area, Oregon
    Leo, you're over complicating it (I approve ).

    Rob, your not the only one to have that thought, I have to many things in front of it though so it's not happening anytime soon here. Will certainly enjoy seeing what you guys all come up with though.

    I'd probably buy a blade (hock and ray iles)
    Or one of the Lee valley replacement blades.,41182

    Or find an old beater 4 or 4 1/2 that still has a reasonable blade as donor stock might be cheaper. Yeah that's o1 steel and thinner than the hock or lv blades. The thicker blade might have some advantage here due to the design complexity around the mouth makes a good bedding a bit more difficult.

    Probably not too wide of a blade is better from a control perspective, the Stanley #20 was 1 3/4 which seems like a reasonable place to start.
    There's also the 113, but most seen to feel the 20 and 20 1/2 as superior for various reasons, not having held them I can't say.

    Kunz in Germany still makes a 113 clone

    I'm kind of surprised that lv made the spill plane before they did this one, but I suppose complexity and cool factor trade offs make some sense.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    The Gorge Area, Oregon
    Here's Paul Sellers take:
    his is fixed radius, but some of the ideas are pretty translatable.

    I actually see a few other makers making fixed radius planes, indeed LV has some mini's that appear? to be foreign sourced,41182&p=55065

    This fellow made one as well:
    I'm including the link to all his planes because .. oh my the compass is near the bottom
    some more of his stuff here:
    close up:
    "62 parts ,265 hours to make " for the miniature compass plane
    Sorry, I got a little weak in the knees and faint feeling looking at that..

    Here's some discussion of felting which has some good information on blades and mouth/frog design:

    which also included a link to another 113 clone
    I suspect its on par with the other anant planes (how good ARE you at fettling?)

    Anyway coffee break is done! Back to pretending to do something useful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Thomasville, GA
    I saw something interesting a few days ago relating to patents. On an episode of "How Do They Do It", a segment was showing the making of fish hooks by an outfit that is in the UK, if I recall correctly. They make hooks unlike anyone else and nobody can match them - at least as yet. The reason? The machine they have is one of a kind, built by the original owner a hundred years ago and never patented. The place is closely guarded and nobody is allowed to take detailed photos of the machine. They sell millions of specialized hooks because they're the only ones who can make them. The overall process is a secret as well.
    Bill Arnold
    Citizen of Texas residing in Georgia.
    NRA Life Member
    Member of Mensa
    Live every day like it's your last, but don't forget to stop and smell the roses.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    GTA Ontario Canada
    Thank you Toni for the suggestion on metal, I will look to see if my local metal supplier can get me a piece.

    Leo...Wooooaaahhh there. Anything I do in the shop is for fun. As tempting your idea is I got so much on my plate I will be lucky to get to starting this idea (which was no where near my list prior to seeing the article. Thanks for the spirit though I do think the kind of idea you suggesting has huge opportunity for everyone here with the skills that exist to co op to make a success of a project.

    Ryan you evil lol with your ability to find stuff. Thanks for all those links particularly Sellers , that link to those planes though, they all too good to be worked with. I am stunned by people that have skills and patience to make a tool like that compass plane. But I am not a collector of tools at all. I consider tools to be used and messed with not put on show.

    Bill that's a really interesting story, my title was a little tongue in cheek given when the patent was. touched a nerve with me with the story.

    My personal experiences with patents have extended from registering patents on behalf of a corporation through to trying to enforce a patent on a product my company was producing and even to buying technology that was globally patented and then turning that tech into something to be sold globally and selling it and then going full circle and having to defend the patent again.

    After all that mouthful (whew) and discussion with other business owners and innovators, I and others have come to the conclusion that its not worth patenting most things and in most cases one is way better off keeping the know how under wraps as best as possible and just moving at light speed to exploit whatever it is. There is a high probability that one overtakes ones own patent these days so the only beneficiary if one bothers to secure the patent is the lawyers. But that's just my experience. Furthermore one needs deep pockets to take on defense of a patent and one best be sure the loss incurred at the time of defense is such that there is a roi going to flow from royalties if one does succeed in winning.

    There are so many misconceptions about what a patent provides one by most people I have heard talk of patents.

    Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    The Gorge Area, Oregon
    I'm practicing my next career as a professional enabler

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