Help Recording Vocal Solos from the Audience

scott spencer

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Rochester, NY
Hi all – I’ve got an inexpensive Olympus VN-702pc (see pic) handheld digital recorder that I use to record my daughter’s live vocal solo performances….recitals, plays, coffee houses, etc. The vocalists are usually not miked, and there’s usually a piano accompaniment. I’m often sitting 40-50 feet away (or more), and would like to optimize what I pickup from my seat. It does ok most of the time, but it's not stellar. The Olympus has a built in microphone and a mini-jack for an optional external microphone. Would I be better off with an external mike? If so, what type? I'm wondering if a directional mike might help me get more vocal and less ambient piano. I’m not really interested in forking out $200 on a mike for a $30 recorder, so are there any decent $20 microphones that would make sense for what I”m doing? I've even thought of using a wireless lapel mike, and attaching the receiving unit to the recorder....though I'm not sure she'd like the transmitting unit attached to her! Other thoughts?

There are times when I could set the recorder near the stage and just capture the whole event, but it's not practical to do at many of the events...some I'm not supposed to record at all, but it's usually hard to resist!

Olympus-VN-702PC-Voice-Recorder.png


 
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Have you looked into a parabolic microphone? Kinda like you would see on the NFL games where they are listening to the players from a distance, but they make hand held ones, but can get up to the $200 range. My kids used to have one similar to this, but mic only...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00F7ZW45X98SWN595X21 , but the don't have a lot of control over background noise with them, but for $25 it might be worth a shot.
 
Thanks guys. Olympus make the MW-52 that plugs right into the 3.5mm jack, but I'm not sure it's enough better to justify the $15-$20 cost. I might see if I can find one of those shotgun mikes that's not 10" to 14" long.
 
Get a really big hat, and put a small hole in the front for the shotgun mic to poke out of slightly. I'm sure no one would notice. :rofl:
 
Get a really big hat, and put a small hole in the front for the shotgun mic to poke out of slightly. I'm sure no one would notice. :rofl:

It's got me written all over it!
f5120ae7eec4684f0250043416aed083.jpg
 
A better mic will potentially improve the sound quality, but the performance will still sound like it was recorded from a distance. I believe a shotgun mic will help some of the "far away sound" issues. I suspect the
bionic ear" type of mic will not be a good full, flat response, and that could mess with a musical performance pretty badly. I'd also be suspicious of a $20 external mic. It's likely the same audio quality as the one built into your recorder, so it's probably not going to add much improvement if any.

I've heard some pretty respectable live recordings done with various Zoom-style digital stereo recorders. I've got the Zoom H4n, but I've used earlier models and gotten good results with them, too. One of the drummers I play with has a similar Teac or Tascam. The real basic model will sound about as good as the more costly ones. (Most of the extra price goes into ectra features that you're not as likely to need as some people.) That said, this type of recorder is typically not directional (actually they're very directional, but in two separate directions for the stereo effect) so the closer you can get the recorder to the sound source (the stage) the more natural it'll sound and the fewer background room noises you'll hear.
 
I have a recorder Sony ICD UX523 that I use at all sorts of things. It also by the way works with dragon but it has amazed me by how well it records at conferences without hall effect.
It has stereo mics but with an omni directional sensitivity pattern.
So don't discount what Vaughn is linking to these small devices are amazing. Mine is nowhere near a match on the unit Vaughn linked to.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
A friend of mine used to have one of those Zoom recorders. From the online pics I think it's an H2N that goes ~ $160. I'll ask to borrow it sometime and compare how it does vs the Olympus...maybe even this Sunday at her next recital. If it sounds like a $100 difference, I'll aim to get one. Thanks guys!
 
At the risk of overcomplicating things, I think with the H4N at least, you can record 4 tracks at once.

So you could use the the 2 built in mics to get the overall sound, and a seperate shotgun mic to get the soloist.

The only question I would have is don't they usually have the soloist use a microphone and pa? Not sure how much that would help.

But still, the higher quality mic on something like the zoom devices should make a difference.
 
I had the H2N before I got the H4N, and it produced great recordings. (I sold it to a bandmate when I got the H4N.) It was a bit simpler to use than the H4N and I had no complaints, but I upgraded in order to get the XLR inputs the H4N offered.
 
As an update, I've got a borrowed Zoom H2 to try this weekend for my daughter's high school's version of the Sound of Music. I'll have 3 tries to capture her singing Climb Every Mtn with it. I may also try to have someone else record the same performance with my Olympus 702 to compare.

Two weeks ago I was loaned an older TEAC shotgun mic that I plugged into my Olympus and recorded her voice recital. Obviously I couldn't record the same performance using the Olympus' internal mic and the TEAC at the same time, but I did have my brother record the same performance using a Kindle Fire tablet as a comparison. My past experiences tell me that the Olympus 702's internal mic is a little better than most phone and tablet recorders, but I thought the TEAC was quite a bit clearer. There are also some volume differences, as well as inherent EQ/tonal balance differences, but I still think the TEAC gave by far the most defined sound, albeit with more background hiss. I may even try to use the TEAC with the Olympus this weekend for a direct comparison of the Zoom H2.

(Thanks to Darren!) Below are two 30 second clips of the same performance recorded by different devices: The TEAC recording is louder, so really needs the volume adjusted to be remotely scientific. Let me know which you think sounds better.

1. Recorded with Kindle tablet

2. Recorded with TEAC_OlympusVN702
 
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Several of our members are using Soundcloud for music clips, might be a good way to provide them. https://soundcloud.com
Worked like a charm...thanks!

(Thanks to Darren!) Below are two 30 second clips of the same performance recorded by different devices: The TEAC recording is louder, so really needs the volume adjusted to be remotely scientific. Let me know which you think sounds better.

1. Recorded with Kindle tablet

2. Recorded with TEAC_OlympusVN702
 
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You might want to give Audacity a shot. It has a lot of tools for processing audio such as normalizing the volume, removing hiss, that sort of thing.

What a fantastic voice, I can see why you want to do some recording.
 
You might want to give Audacity a shot. It has a lot of tools for processing audio such as normalizing the volume, removing hiss, that sort of thing.

What a fantastic voice, I can see why you want to do some recording.


I actually installed Audacity last week so I could split the mono signal from the TEAC into two channels. I'll mess with normalizing it and see if I can remove some hiss. Thanks!
 
The Teac/Olympus combination sounds better than the Kindle to me, but neither one of them are great. (Kind of like looking at the moon through a paper towel roll vs. a pair of binoculars. One's definitely better than the other, but neither is as good as a telescope.) :D

I strongly suspect the hiss you're hearing when using the shotgun mic is coming from the Olympus recorder, not the mic. The Teac mic is delivering a high-quality signal, but the Olympus is a voice recorder, so it's not really geared towards recording high fidelity. You can tweak some of the hiss out of the recording with Audacity, but you'll also lose some of the sibilance (the "S" and "T" sounds) in the process. A better solution would be better tools, IMO. I think once you try the borrowed Zoom, you'll be sold. ;) :thumb:
 
Finally got around to extracting all the clips I grabbed during the weekend. That H2 is really very capable. It has some great features. This recording isn't bad considering it was taken from my seat in the 10th row. Not quite like being in front of a good ribbon mike, but nice upgrade from the Olympus recorder....now I'm wondering how it would do in place of an up close mic.

This is Climb Every Mountain sung by the Mother Abbess to close out the first act (2min 30 sec):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIgwKise5kk


Climb Every Mtn Reprise with Nun's choir to close out the show (90 sec):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPiEvIwUUUY
 
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