What is Waterlox?

Stuart Ablett

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I have a large entertainment center build coming up, the client wants a very natural wood color, the top grade plywood I have is Shina looks like maple and will work well, but I don't have any possibility of spraying a finish. They want a matte finish, so I thought something like Waterlox would be good, I can brush it on and build up a good coat, but I can't get it for a reasonable amount here. They want $150 for quart of it, and it will take a couple of weeks to get.

Waterlox on Amazon Japan



My question then is what is Waterlox, is it just Tung oil or is it something else? I think I can get Tung oil here, but I'm not sure it will be like Waterlox.
Any ideas?
Thanks
 
............................................

My question then is what is Waterlox, is it just Tung oil or is it something else? I think I can get Tung oil here, but I'm not sure it will be like Waterlox.
Any ideas?
Thanks

According to them {from here}
"First and foremost, Waterlox tung oil-based varnishes have no competitors. No other finish manufacturer utilizes tung oil, resin and mineral spirits to produce a product that has the same characteristics as Waterlox"

Sorry, that's all I can offer....



 
I would not use that, if you are bent on waterlox here is the sealer

Waterlox Original Sealer - $59.00 / Gallon - PaintSource.net‎
Adwww.paintsource.net/‎
Overpacked, and delivered to you in 1 to 4 days.
Waterlox Tung Oil featured by PaintSource Network

Waterlox is for an area that is high moister like maine. If you need that kind of paint ok but let the customer know the cost of the paint ,
 
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The original is a phenolic based varnish with tung oil resins. Most varnish is alkyd or poly based, the phenolic is a bit harder than poly, and I believe somewhat more resistant the elements than alkyd. Pop woodworking discusses them more: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/the_many_faces_of_varnish

Waterlox is pretty tough, I used some on some brewery tasting trays as an experiment and it lasted fairly well through a few years of hot water washes and beer several times a day.

A possible downside in your case is that it's fairly amber and tends to yellow a bit more with age than some of the alternatives. On a pale wood like that it would be fairly noticeable. I think it looks pretty good on cherry and woods like that but maple is a tougher decision.
 
Stu you could make up some Maloof finish, it is a soft non gloss finish and easy to make, use 1/3 pure tung oil, 1/3 blo and 1/3 wipe on poly, it is what he used on most pieces, it's easy to use and lasts a long time, he would put on several thin coats over a period of time.
 
Ryan nailed it, it is the phenolic/tung oil formula that makes it unique. He also mentioned the color, it's the darkest of the varnishes. Tung oil by itself isn't going to be a substitute.
 
Thanks guys.

I found some local Tung Oil with the driers etc in it and I have a small sample bottle coming, I'll give it a try to see what it is like.

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Here is a screen capture of the translated page, it is NOT pure Tung Oil but something that has some additives in it. I'll see how it works.

They don't want totally blonde, they want a bit of color, but not the Dark Walnut they were thinking originally.

I hope this stuff does the trick, something like $115 for 4 liters (about a gallon US).

It says brush on, wait 10 to 20 min, remove excess with a rag, wait 24 hours, then a light sanding and repeat, will not come to a gloss finish, but a satin, or semi-gloss.

I'll report back when I get a chance to try it out.

Thanks
 
I mainly spray, but had a requirement for an oiled finish a few months ago. I used Watco "Teak Oil Finish" that I had on hand from the big box. Applied a coat, wait a bit, and wipe it off, next day repeat, etc. The last coat I didn't wipe enough - it had an ugly gummy finish that steel wool wouldn't touch.
Expecting to have to remove it all and start over, I got out the cabinet scraper, and the gummy part came off easily, leaving a nice oiled finish. Minor touch up, steel wool, and furniture wax and it was a finish I was proud of, and the customer liked.

I know Teaks don't produce oil, so I suspect this is an oil/varnish mix - the varnish providing the solvents and dryers, and the oil probably being linseed oil. It is sold for hard dense woods, so probably has a higher percent solvent to help it soak in.

This isn't a direct answer to your question, but I suspect the nature of the oil is less important than the way it is applied and allowed to soak in, wiped, and dried in layers.
 
I mainly spray, but had a requirement for an oiled finish a few months ago. I used Watco "Teak Oil Finish" that I had on hand from the big box. Applied a coat, wait a bit, and wipe it off, next day repeat, etc. The last coat I didn't wipe enough - it had an ugly gummy finish that steel wool wouldn't touch.
Expecting to have to remove it all and start over, I got out the cabinet scraper, and the gummy part came off easily, leaving a nice oiled finish. Minor touch up, steel wool, and furniture wax and it was a finish I was proud of, and the customer liked.

I know Teaks don't produce oil, so I suspect this is an oil/varnish mix - the varnish providing the solvents and dryers, and the oil probably being linseed oil. It is sold for hard dense woods, so probably has a higher percent solvent to help it soak in.

This isn't a direct answer to your question, but I suspect the nature of the oil is less important than the way it is applied and allowed to soak in, wiped, and dried in layers.


It seems I can get Watco Teak Oil here in Japan, but I'm not sure it is for me on this project, according to Watco the Teak oil is formulated for very dense woods, like Teak and is meant to be applied often to keep the wood (thinking a deck chair or boat) well oiled.

Thanks for sharing, I did not know they have such a product, they have the regular Watco oils here but I've never seen the teak oil in the stores, but they do have it.
 
OK I got the sample, there were two companies that I found who had a product I was interested in, the first company has everything laid out, an online shopping page where you can easily make your order, and will ship ASAP. The second company has a form you have to fill out and submit before they will even tell you the price of the product, this was a full page form, asking things like "If you are a business, how much business do you do in a year?" How many people are employed at your company, how many square feet is your workshop etc. Once submitted and approved, they would send you a price list, then you would have to do a money transfer to order even the sample, this process would take a week to 10 days.

I bet you can guess which company I ordered a sample from LOL.

We sent an email inquiring about getting a sample, the email we got back said the sample was $5, the handling was $2.83 and the shipping was $9, but because they want me to try the product, they made the shipping on the bill -$9, and they had no problem with us paying COD, which is easy for us, yeah I like these guys.

We ordered the sample Yesterday, they sent it via courier and it came today.

Now I have to share how they sent it.....

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This is a green tea can, I have removed the shipping label that was stuck on it.

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Inside the can there is a nice bubble wrapped bottle of the finish and an envelope with the invoice and a flyer about the finish.

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The tea can is obviously used, I applaud their recycling in the most positive sense, this is a great way to send the sample bottle of finish to me.

I can't wait to try it, I hope it works well, as I said, I'm very impressed with the company so far.

Cheers
 
Stu,

Is that a pre-polymerized oil or a raw oil? Most of the tung based products I've tried (limited set admittedly) did like a bit of time to dry between coats so take your time.

I've been working for a while on a document that quantifies the drying ability of various raw oils and was considering adding some experimental evidence to some of the pieces as well, but for some cases examining various treated oils closer is also interesting because the raw oils are so very very slow to dry. Its a long ways from being ready to share yet :)

If you get a chance to do a simple glass test for polymerization rate and color that would be very useful. Put a few drops spread in a thin film on a piece of glass and another drop (singular) left as placed then and set it out in the sun (stick a jar upside down over it if its a really dusty area but mildly prefer uncovered to optimized oxygen flow). The interesting bits are how long it takes to form a polymer all the way through on both the thin film and the drop (some oils take ~months~ on the drop), the opacity and color of the film, and the toughness of the film. I haven't come up with a great way to measure the toughness in a simple way yet so have been mostly doing a fingernail dent test which is pretty subjective.

The thin film test can also be a good way to decide the interval between putting on additional coats as you generally want the initial coat to be more or less fully polymerized before top coating with oil finishes (once the cross link bonds are formed it seems that ~usually~ further hardening can continue under another coat - although again I'm not sure if that's universally true).
 
Stu,

Is that a pre-polymerized oil or a raw oil? Most of the tung based products I've tried (limited set admittedly) did like a bit of time to dry between coats so take your time.

I've been working for a while on a document that quantifies the drying ability of various raw oils and was considering adding some experimental evidence to some of the pieces as well, but for some cases examining various treated oils closer is also interesting because the raw oils are so very very slow to dry. Its a long ways from being ready to share yet :)

If you get a chance to do a simple glass test for polymerization rate and color that would be very useful. Put a few drops spread in a thin film on a piece of glass and another drop (singular) left as placed then and set it out in the sun (stick a jar upside down over it if its a really dusty area but mildly prefer uncovered to optimized oxygen flow). The interesting bits are how long it takes to form a polymer all the way through on both the thin film and the drop (some oils take ~months~ on the drop), the opacity and color of the film, and the toughness of the film. I haven't come up with a great way to measure the toughness in a simple way yet so have been mostly doing a fingernail dent test which is pretty subjective.

The thin film test can also be a good way to decide the interval between putting on additional coats as you generally want the initial coat to be more or less fully polymerized before top coating with oil finishes (once the cross link bonds are formed it seems that ~usually~ further hardening can continue under another coat - although again I'm not sure if that's universally true).

I would say that it is a Pre-polymerized oil because they say it has a solvent and a drier in it. They recommend 24 hours between coats (when it is warm out) and 2 days for complete curing, also light sanding between coats.

I'll try to do the glass test for you.

Cheers!
 
I'm back worrying on this finish problem.

The Tung oil that I got looks very nice, but it is now where near dark enough.

Back to square one.

This are the things I'm trying now

The Shina plywood was sanded to #320

#1) One part BLO, one part Watco Medium Walnut Oil, one part clear oil based Urethane

#2) One part Teak tinted Oil based Urethane, one part Mineral Spirits (thinner)

#3) One part Walnut tinted Water based Urethane, one part water.

#4) One part walnut tinted water based Urethane.

#5) One part Medium Walnut Watco oil

IMG_1768.JPG

Everything you see has two coats on it.

#2 is a bit of a screw up, I thought I had the Walnut tinted oil based urethane at home but I was wrong, so I used the teak colored that I have, just to see.

All of these have been applied with a paper towel, until the wood was saturated, left for 5 min then wiped dry with a clean paper towel.

The oil based finishes will require a lot less sanding, the water based finished really raised the grain, and I mean a LOT.

The water based finish after one coat I had to sand to #320 again, the oil based finishes I only had to use a 3M scubby pad to get it smooth.

The prospect of having to re-sand all those surfaces again with the water based stuff is really putting me off it, plus the water based stuff is more than double the price.

Right now I think that the #2 if is was the right color would be my choice, I can also get this "Color Urethane" as they call it in larger cans, if I mix it 1 to 1 with the mineral spirits (paint thinner) then I think I'm basically making my own wipe on poly, as you guys would call it, I think.
 
I'm not very happy with any of the results, this shina plywood is very blotchy, if that is a word. Any of the stains have come out looking awful, IMHO, the tinted poly, well they don't give hardly any color, they want a medium walnut finish.
I dug around in my cabinet and I found a bottle of water based wood dye by Briwax called Hydrocote, so far I'm liking the results.

IMG_1772.JPG

OK here are three new test boards, ignore the scratch mark this is scrap lumber after all.


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it is dark enough, but I think it is blotchy looking, the watco is a pigment stain after all.


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This is the Urethane with the color in it, I am assuming that it is also a pigment stain, but I'm not sure.
I like this one more, but the color is not very "Walnut" IMHO


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The medium is too light I think.


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The Breewax wood dye with one coat on the test piece


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Again the wood dye, this time with one coat and two coats


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Here the tests all have two coats of finish on them.


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I don't know, but I think I like the single coat of dye the best, once these are dry I'll wipe on a couple of coats of clear urethane to finish off the dye.

Looking for thoughts and or opinions here.

The is will a large entertainment center and I do not have the ability to spray, so this will all be applied by hand.

Cheers!
 
To my aged eyes, the one coat of dye looks much more uniform than 2 coats. I also think it looks better than any of the precious tests.
Me too Fred.

I'm now putting a couple three coats of wipe on urethane, on both dyed pieces, which is 75% urethane and 25% mineral spirits, then I'll show them to the customer to get approval. Once that is done I can buy a LOT of both as I have a LOT to finish. Going to finish the parts before assembly.

Cheers!
 
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