CNC questions

Thanks for clarification John.

Just some feedback, i think your mandate is an excellent initiative. Wish you all the best.

Couple weeks back i attended the Canadian annual collision industry conference.
What was interesting was a similar debate took place with representatives from several of the educators from local trade colleges. Specifically the heads of department for collision repair subject.
The collision industry is in serious difficulty finding personnel with suitable skills for the current vehicles and direction the auto industry is going with all the anti collision avoidance systems.
Then add in the OEM system diagnostics and the variety of metals and sophistication of paint and the person a collision shop needs does just not exist and neither does a training course.

Now comes the issue of equipment these classes need to be able to actually teach the skills to students and each college taking part was battling with funding to buy equipment.

In their case its not that they ain't got funding but the problem is the equipment is being made obsolete at a rate they cannot keep up with replacement. Btw the same problem is being experienced by the actual shops.
Between regulation and technical complexity a spray booth today is a million dollar investment.
Then comes the diagnostic scanners. Forget the OBD 2 system. Most OEMs today have their own and we talking $14 k for a setup. One OE has targets needed to calibrate the anti collision kit on their cars and those targets sell for $4k alone and thats only to do a single OE's vehicles.

So John i totally sympathize i don't see how on earth education keeps up with pace of change of tech in general. If a funded college with individual paying students cannot keep pace with industry specific training how does a school do it. Then to boot as you point out a rural school.

I have no idea about the regulations, but John any chance you could be permitted to do a kickstarter campaign to raise more coin for your program. I think you have such a good case it would get well supported.
To teach the kids the full business cycle of a machine would be excellent insight for them.

I support making them part of equipment purchase / research. Thats a task that needs doing in any business before the process can be used.
And hey if the cnc kit builders provide donations i would write to each one asking for assistance and donations.
You got lucky kids John. Lucky to have you.
 
Not all high school students are college bound either for economic, or mind set reasons.

Could you come explain that to one of my guidance counselors.

Yes our schools do lack in preparing these students for real life living. Every item we can provide to get them to really see what they can produce is a step forward getting out do doing there "thing". To often the students minds are wasted on being pushed into something they could care less about. All the studies need to focus on the future of the student. Hands on doing or paper work whatever. All studies are needed. The CNC, laser, woodworking, machine shop each fill a need that has to be filled.
The trade schools partially fill this need however a student needs to be exposed to discipline earlier to see how it will fit his ambition.

A trade school is essential. As you note, I am not trying to be that because I need to approach my student's education with a "shotgun" approach. A smattering of many ideas as you do not nor does the student many times know what will really peak their interest. In the welding it is always interesting to see who just wants to only weld (run beads), then there are the students that realize their skill or desire is the fabrication (building of plans or the actual project) then others realize they really like the prep work and paint.

John sure wished I had you as an instructor in high school. ( To many years ago to remember) Your dedication and ambition are to be much admired. Your students hopefully will appreciate your efforts. Industry should applaud your endeavor.

I have been blessed through my 30 years of teaching.

Thanks for clarification John.

Just some feedback, i think your mandate is an excellent initiative. Wish you all the best.

Thank you.

Couple weeks back i attended the Canadian annual collision industry conference.
What was interesting was a similar debate took place with representatives from several of the educators from local trade colleges. Specifically the heads of department for collision repair subject.
The collision industry is in serious difficulty finding personnel with suitable skills for the current vehicles and direction the auto industry is going with all the anti collision avoidance systems.
Then add in the OEM system diagnostics and the variety of metals and sophistication of paint and the person a collision shop needs does just not exist and neither does a training course.

Now comes the issue of equipment these classes need to be able to actually teach the skills to students and each college taking part was battling with funding to buy equipment.

In their case its not that they ain't got funding but the problem is the equipment is being made obsolete at a rate they cannot keep up with replacement. Btw the same problem is being experienced by the actual shops.
Between regulation and technical complexity a spray booth today is a million dollar investment.
Then comes the diagnostic scanners. Forget the OBD 2 system. Most OEMs today have their own and we talking $14 k for a setup. One OE has targets needed to calibrate the anti collision kit on their cars and those targets sell for $4k alone and thats only to do a single OE's vehicles.

So John i totally sympathize i don't see how on earth education keeps up with pace of change of tech in general. If a funded college with individual paying students cannot keep pace with industry specific training how does a school do it. Then to boot as you point out a rural school.

I have no idea about the regulations, but John any chance you could be permitted to do a kickstarter campaign to raise more coin for your program. I think you have such a good case it would get well supported.
To teach the kids the full business cycle of a machine would be excellent insight for them.

I support making them part of equipment purchase / research. Thats a task that needs doing in any business before the process can be used.
And hey if the cnc kit builders provide donations i would write to each one asking for assistance and donations.
You got lucky kids John. Lucky to have you.


The problem with the students doing the research, well, I have to develop the class, the curriculum and determine a budget BEFORE they advertise the class for students.


Thank you all for the ideas and support. All are greatly appreciated.
 
"The problem with the students doing the research, well, I have to develop the class, the curriculum and determine a budget BEFORE they advertise the class for students. "

Ah... a real world problem! Maybe engage them in the research as part of a hypothetical exercise. Learning to balance a lot of variables within the constraints of real word limitations is an ultimate life lesson.

Good luck, Jon. I wish I was younger and had your opportunity.
 
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I promised to ask at the lab today regarding lasers.

Here is what we have: http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com/

Yup, more than your budget, FWIW there is an educational discount. You could call and ask.

Also had a discussion regarding your options. The consensus was That your $4000 could be the seed money for a truly great addition to your curriculum and teh kids certainly could have an active part in the research and planning part.

Case in point.

We have a bazillion kids here working on robots. These are competitive robots. I will make a separate post (with pictures) about them and what they are designed to do. They are quite pricey ($$$$) to build and the kids have to get grants, donations, GoFundMe, etc. on their own. It is part of the learning process. And they do this annually.

Exciting stuff!

As I said in a previous post, you are in an enviable position!
 
I promised to ask at the lab today regarding lasers.

Here is what we have: http://www.rabbitlaserusa.com/

Yup, more than your budget, FWIW there is an educational discount. You could call and ask.

Thanks, will look into that.

Also had a discussion regarding your options. The consensus was That your $4000 could be the seed money for a truly great addition to your curriculum and teh kids certainly could have an active part in the research and planning part.

This is not "seed" money. This is the dollar amount told to me they had available for me to purchase a piece of equipment for a business class of my design. No class will be offered until I get the equipment and write the curriculum. So, no kids for any active part of research and planning. They students I have in my current classes, I keep them busy enough, plus will not put them into the negatives of the political BS that accompanies any requests for innovative ideas/solutions. My years of teaching have been blessed with outstanding students. But the rigamarole that I have had to go through, the hoops to jump through, well I am not creating dog and pony shows. In the comment of dog and pony show, to me that means it looks good on paper, sounds good in a presentation but in reality is nothing more than smoke and mirrors which means it does nothing positive for a student. I like for my students to have something physical to hold in their hands and an experience to keep in their head.

Case in point.

We have a bazillion kids here working on robots. These are competitive robots. I will make a separate post (with pictures) about them and what they are designed to do. They are quite pricey ($$$$) to build and the kids have to get grants, donations, GoFundMe, etc. on their own. It is part of the learning process. And they do this annually.

I will do what it takes to create opportunities. Have in the past, will continue doing so. Just a little bit of background, I co wrote a curriculum for an ag-science off site teaching campus. Wrote grants for and received over $600.000.00 for the building of an Ag-Science Academy. 8 years in, a change in administration and they closed the academy. Thus in many of the grant situations my name is mud. Political. I will work my students hard but will not put them in a position of feeling like they have to help create funding for my paycheck.

Exciting stuff!

Some days. When dealing with students 99.5% of the time. When dealing with administrators, less than 10%,

As I said in a previous post, you are in an enviable position!


Grass looks greener on the other side of the fence.


I hope I don't sound negative. I won't put my students in a position to deal with administration where they might find out they aren't worth a specific dollar amount. Kind of like fighting a war and finding out it is cheaper for your soldiers to die than create armor to possibly save lives.
 
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