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Leo Voisine

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I think I am pretty good at some stuff. I am mediocre good at some stuff. I am not on the playing field with other stuff.

I want a really good website, for me and my business, but I am woefully unskilled.

At 3 years to retirement and beginning to pick up a few retirement type jobs, I want to begin getting this stage of my life in order. I don't really want to wait until the last minute.

I am about ready to have a professionally done website created. I would prefer a "little guy" like me at a retirement level, but a little guy as a side profession is quite OK also. The big guys are OK as a last resort, but I really want to support the "mom-n-pop" shop.

I want to be able to add and maintain, but I need something designed that will be attractive and functional.

I know there is the standard array of design questions.

Any advise?

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Ohhh, and ROB, at this time, business advice will be accepted, business plan and mission statement is also accepted advise. Just remember, this is a HOBBY business, which is NOT a feed my family business. There must be a distinction there.
 
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I am going through the website thing at the moment myself. Fortunately I have some professional help who knows more than the nuts and bolts of website creation. He asks questions like who I am trying to attract, exactly what I am offering, and contact information options up the wazoo. Good luck.

I confess I have a problem with a 'hobby' business. A business is an entity for the purpose of making money. If you don't care to make money, it is a hobby and not a business. If you want to make money, then how much will be dictated by the clientele and your acceptance of the work requested. If you are making money, the IRS is involved fo reporting purposes. To think otherwise is unwise.

I like you, Leo. But I am no good at baking cakes with files in them. :)
 
I know there has been ample discussion on this, but the simple fact is - the IRS does recognize a "hobby" business and tax reporting is very simple.

To be honest I have not read THIS snippet, but, I have looked into hobby business some years ago.

https://www.irs.gov/uac/five-tax-tips-about-hobbies-that-earn-income

Anyway - that is not what I am asking about. Carol your comments about the web designer questions is really what I am after.
 
I've maintained a photography business for the past 18 years. I had a "local" guy create a website for me. It was not cheap (about $1000). He charged me by the hour for his time to create it. Hindsight now tells me that he probably spent more time and therefore costing me more than a professional might have because he had to spend more hours figuring out how to do certain things that a professional website designer may have been able to do much quicker.

My suggestion would be to find someone in your area that already has a small business with a website and contact them and let them know that you like their website and want to know who they used. You might get a lead to a "small time" local person who can help you create what you want to do.

My photography business is run "in my spare time". Carol does have a point in that a business is meant to make money however I never wanted my business to get so busy that I was pressured to meet deadlines. I knew that I was going to keep my other fulltime job so my part time business had to be kept small enough for me to continue to do it and it be enjoyable for me to do. I am registered with my state to collect sales tax and pay every penny in taxes that I owe from any sales tax collected and profits I make.
 
What my web site guy was telling me is that I have to think in terms of getting my information to the most likely people interested in it. A shotgun approach interests no one because it is way too vague. So think in terms of good marketing practices. The website is just the vehicle. In other words you can get to the next town via a variety of methods, from walking to a jet plane! The website is often thought of as a jet plane. But it still needs a pilot!

That said, look for what you think are the most interesting and effective websites and note why you think so. Most ISP's offer some good IMS tools and are amateur user friendly. You're paying for it anyway when you sign up. Might as well as give it a try. Also makes me wonder what guys on your sign forums are doing. Might be a place for some research.

Some other good information he gave me was how people like to navigate a website and what they dislike. This comes under the heading of just because you can does not necessarily mean you should.

By the way I bartered for my guy. He is getting married near the end of the year. He and his bride get our church and fellowship hall for their wedding. In the open market that is worth thousands. You might barter a sign or something.
 
I'm working with a web site design company now to find a solution to my needs. That said, early on not knowing what I wanted to achieve nor how much I wanted to spend they suggested that many small entrepreneurs find a solution in what shopify offers. Not me but might be worth a look for you?
 
+1 to reading Charlies site, lots of good information there.

A couple of general guidelines.
  • Find out what software they're using and how much it costs.
  • Worry less about how much it will cost you to get your data onto the web initially and more what it would cost you to get it back out (if you move hosting providers) and what it will cost to update it. Focusing on that will also generally reduce the up front cost but also helps keep it sustainable.
  • Separate the design and hosting, if the designer is partnering with a hosting company (ore better more than one) that's fine but do price shop the hosting separately as that's an ongoing cost.
  • If you’re looking at managing the content yourself long term, consider one of the packaged hosting systems (wordpress, google sites, I’m sure I’m missing some…) they aren’t super hard to use and the slight learning bump will pay off long term. You might consider paying for an hour or three of tutorial/lessons.
  • I say this below but it bears repeating, be very careful of ecommerce solutions that aren't well known/pre-built.

I'll refrain from offering much of specific technological advice because its been a bit over a decade since I did serious web design and I'm sure the tooling has moved a bit since then. I can offer a bit of advice on the web designer selection process though having observed more than a few deals that didn't go nearly as well as you'd like..

A lot of web designers tend to over estimate their abilities, this can lead to spending a lot of time and money and not getting any deliverables delivered. I strongly advocate that anyone having someone do web design for them have staged deliverables spelled out ahead of time and do pay-as-delivered. That helps limit the scope creep and keeps the conversation limited to a specific phase of the project. Personally I always preferred to do pay-for-deliverable rather than hourly, but that only really works if the expectation are laid out very clearly ahead of time (and usually there is some 1-2 hours of hourly consult time ahead of that). This kept me honest when I was learning something new (not on your dime) and gave me a bit of lead when I was a lot faster than normal book at something (fairly common).

Be VERY cautious about designers who are offering e-commerce or other advanced features unless they are using a pre-built platform. They are unlikely to deliver (i.e. LOML’s friend had a yarn store that spent ~thousands~ to do quickbooks online inventory integration with a local designer and never even got a simple web site running), and even if they do, doing ecommerce safely and correctly is somewhat harder than you would naively expect.

There are a few main types of web designers you'll run into. The first is the artsie variety. They'll make an incredibly beautiful website using some proprietary tool that costs an arm and a leg to buy and pretty much locks you out of making much for changes to it yourself. I don’t attribute this outcome to malice, a lot of these tools are really nice (and a lot of the designers have spent a lot of time training on them) but it does have a long term downside if you decide you don’t like their service for whatever reason. The other problem is that the html code generated is often complex which means it can be fragile across different browsers, browser versions. Generally these folks can do static pages for high dollar prices and you’ll have to keep paying to do updates.

The second is the technosavage who will make a functional but not exceptionally attractive web page that has an overly complicated backend. The worst ones (cough guilty) also add in a lot of “magical” invented here bits in the back end code. That is unfortunately what a lot of my work looked like :) This setup has similar long term maintenance problems to the artsie designer without the pretty bits.

Then there is the “template thumper” who takes a pre-built set of templates/design patterns then slaps your logo and verbiage on it. You can mostly spot these guys because if you look at the websites they’re running one of a couple of packages (https://www.google.com/webdesigner/, http://www.wordpress.com/, etc..)‎. These guys are usually decent and depending on what you want out of a web page can be worth the money. They often leave you something you can work with long term (assuming you take over control of the content and they don’t keep it in some walled hosting garden). The downside is that you’re generally paying a fair bit for what you can mostly do yourself - IF you have any design skills. Basically you’re paying for design skills not the technical parts as much because most of the tools are pretty easy to use.

You're unlikely to go much past one of those three for a small business website (past that you're getting into more custom complex systems) so I'll skip the rest.
 
Great advice there Ryan. I've got a friend I was talking about this very same subject the other day. You've nailed my feelings on the subject pretty much to a T. So much so, I'm going to cut and paste your response here and send it to him and pretend I wrote it.

:beer::rofl:
 
Ryan is right on the money. I've designed and implemented a few websites, including one e-commerce site (lot harder than it looked). I consider myself a hack template-thumper. I know just enough to get something started, but then when the client asks for changes, sometimes they're easy for me and other times I'm stumped and can't figure out how to manipulate the template to make what should be a simple change.

Wordpress is pretty easy to use, as long as you find a template you like. (There are thousands to choose from.) It's especially easy for setting up a fairly static site but can also be changed and added to relatively easily as long as you stay within the limitations of the particular template you choose. Here's an example of a Wordpress site I set up several years ago. It's now being maintained by one of the members of the handbell ensemble, and I'm no longer maintaining it. I see in looking at it today that the lady who took over the maintenance has shanged a few things, but the basic structure I initially set up is still in place: :http://enchantmenthandbells.org/

For an e-commerce site, I've used LiteCommerce, which I believe is essentially a free version of Xcommerce. Here's a LiteCommerce site I set up and continue to maintain. It ain't pretty, but it gets the job done: http://monster-lathe-tools.com (I just now noticed that I need to make some changes and make it use HTTPS on all the pages, not just the checkout pages. Gonna have to do some studying to figure out how to do that. Like I said, I'm a hack.)

For my own personal site, I used Microsoft FrontPage, which was a mistake. I no longer have a working version of FrontPage, so making changes or additions to the site are tedious and largely over my head. I haven't updated it in about three years, because there really hasn't been a need to. (Although I should probably remove the pitch for the 2014 calendar, lol.) Here's what it looks like: http://workingwoods.com/ At some point, I'll probably re-do the site and use a different tool to do it.

Lastly, watch out for guys who know how to write HTML code but have no design skills whatsoever. Here's a personal site a friend of mine built. He's really proud of the fact that he wrote everything in Notepad and VI Editor, but he doesn't realize the whole site is a dog's breakfast, lol. Seriously, there are 6th graders who can design a better-looking site these days. As an aside, his girlfriend is a professional website designer who does nice work, but he's too proud (and cocky) to ask her for assistance. He's not updated it for years, and it shows. http://drummerdonnie.com/
 
Lastly, watch out for guys who know how to write HTML code but have no design skills whatsoever. Here's a personal site a friend of mine built. He's really proud of the fact that he wrote everything in Notepad and VI Editor, but he doesn't realize the whole site is a dog's breakfast, lol. Seriously, there are 6th graders who can design a better-looking site these days. As an aside, his girlfriend is a professional website designer who does nice work, but he's too proud (and cocky) to ask her for assistance. He's not updated it for years, and it shows. http://drummerdonnie.com/

Yeeesh!!! Those colors! I've done a few sites that looked that bad, as a joke (I do have a slightly skewed sense of humor). It's basically like myspace meets mid 90s design (the mid to late 90s were a glorious time to be a hack, also everyone felt compelled to use all those cool new html tags like blink, now it's all div this and html5 that with fancy template overlays. Differently complicated).

One other bit of advice that's probably less important now than it was when I started is that a web site isn't a print ad. Figure people will have different sized browser windows and don't try to control pixel placement (way to many people do very carefully crafted web brochures that look great on the original designers browser but are just terrible on screens slightly larger or smaller and forget about mobile/phone viewers). Done of the artsie designers are especially bad about doing this, get work samples and look at them on different browsers and platforms, if they look bad, so will yours.

It probably should go without saying but go into this with a budget and a list of things you want the site to accomplish. That will help both with getting what you want and may help with some reality checks if need be.
 
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