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Thread: Well, I'm thinking of a new TS or other tool.......

  1. #1
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    Well, I'm thinking of a new TS or other tool.......

    My recently purchased 4 year old Uni is fine, teriffic and a very welcome upgrade from my Ridgid. However, I've now cut a few 45's on some 3/4" plywood pieces and I didn't like the experience AT ALL! It's a right-tilt and my last saw was a left-tilt. When I got done with a couple of pieces I realized that I was very nervous about making those cuts. I'm not looking forward to ripping 45's on my face frame material.

    So, since I'm FINALLY and unexpectedly getting some money that my ex was supposed to turn over to me 5 years ago, I thought I'd splurge and get a left-tilt saw and/or a thickness sander.

    I've been thinking about the quality of the Uni and it's popularity lately and I was wondering.....What is a step up from the Uni? It's been around forever, it's a favorite of a large chunk of the WWing universe, and it has a reliable reputation year after year, right? Should I just get a left-tilt Uni or step up? What is a step up from a Unisaw? Is the next step one of the PM's or the Sawstop that we've been reading a lot about recently?

    Thickness sander.........I worry pretty intensely (for my experience level ) about my set-up on my router table so my cope-and-stick joints come out pretty good but they still need a little sanding most of the time, and sometimes a lot of sanding. (I'm anxious to see how my new Porter Cable 7518, Woodpecker PRL, Incra LS Super system combo works out for my doors on my current cabinet project.) Anyway, I very rarely make any doors over 18" wide so I'd be looking at a 20" sander but I know NOTHING about buying and/or using a thickness sander other than the difference between it and a thickness planer (thanks to you folks). Your opinions and suggestions on a sander please?


    Thanks very much for your opinions and advice.
    Last edited by Mark Rios; 11-17-2006 at 04:39 PM.
    Thanks, Mark.

    Custom Bonehead.

    My diet is working good. I'm down to needing just one chair now.

    "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

  2. #2
    Mark,
    Ok most know where my loyalty lays with manufactorers but take a serious look at going to a European style machine. I for the life of me can not understand the American Woodworkers fascination with cabinet saw or contractor saws. Yes they meet a price point (I can most definately understand that) but as far as performance they have not changed one single bit in what 60-70 years???

    The funny thing is that most people that start off woodworking are ameutors of course and one of the first machines they ask about is a CS. In my opinion they are not very safe machines and add to that a ripe new user and you have a recipe for disaster. IF one were to use a sliding saw you could be completely away from the blade at ALL TIMES and in addition perform many more tasks to boot! If money is the only thing driving people away from these machines then fine I can understand that but for poeple to think a Slider is limited to sheetgood processing is flat out wrong! I use both and every time I turn my saw on I am loving life a bit more. I could go on and on an on about the things I can do now but that will be for another group of segments.....anyone interested???

  3. #3
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    I agree with you completely Paul. I would love to be asking you and Tod for recommendations for that type of saw (and other tools). However, right now (and for the next few years according to my 10 year plan), my tools need to be portable and fit in and out of my trailer. The Uni (rails) ended up being longer than my Ridgid but I can still fit around it and I've adapted to it's size and better mobility. I really can't squeeze anything bigger into my work plan.

    I agree, from my very limited knowledge about them, that the european saw seem to be a safer design. But I've also been using table saws, my own or on the job site, for 25+ years and while I'm definately not accident proof (we can compare scars sometime ) I am very comfortable using a table saw. I have enough experience with them to know when NOT to use someones saw becasue it's not safe in my opinion.

    Thanks very much though, from someone pining to have a permanent shop again.
    Thanks, Mark.

    Custom Bonehead.

    My diet is working good. I'm down to needing just one chair now.

    "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

  4. #4
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    okay mark i`ll ask the magic questions.........what do you want to accomplish with a "new" saw or other tool? and how much money are we talking about?
    the right tilt saws are fine for miters and pretty much everything else you`d want a cabinet saw to do....instead of working with thin stock cut wider stock and rip the miter off of it.........95% of saw work is done at 90deg so spending money on another saw just to have left tilting doesn`t make sence to me......now having both a left and right tilt saw can sometimes be handy but at a cost of both space and money.....you yourself said that you`re just setting up a router table......it`s likely that you`ll spend more money than a new cabinet saw tooling up for the router table? how `bout a feeder? it could be used with both the router and the saw...........
    sanding is the largest continuing expense in most shops.....plus it flat out sucks!.......do you have a dust collector capable of evacuating a sanding machine? if not stick to the handhelds `cause sanders don`t like dust on the workpiece........... if you`re dead set on a sanding machine the budgit comes into play....new for less than 10k you`re pretty much stuck with drum.....so shop first by horsepower......5hp minimum...that`s 25amp on 220! and that`s for each drum.......don`t try running a double drum on one 5hp motor...it`s faster to sand by hand....as you know i one finger out these responses so i`ll wait `till you give me more input before i type anymore
    [SIZE="1"] associated with several importers and manufacturers.[/SIZE]

  5. #5
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    I'm with you on the right tilt vs. left tilt issue. From what I've read it seems the SawStop is more of an upgrade from a Uni than a PM. (And that's not counting the brake thing.) Hopefully Mark Singer or another SS owner will chime in.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    okay mark i`ll ask the magic questions.........what do you want to accomplish with a "new" saw or other tool? and how much money are we talking about?
    the right tilt saws are fine for miters and pretty much everything else you`d want a cabinet saw to do....instead of working with thin stock cut wider stock and rip the miter off of it.........95% of saw work is done at 90deg so spending money on another saw just to have left tilting doesn`t make sence to me......now having both a left and right tilt saw can sometimes be handy but at a cost of both space and money.....you yourself said that you`re just setting up a router table......it`s likely that you`ll spend more money than a new cabinet saw tooling up for the router table? how `bout a feeder? it could be used with both the router and the saw...........
    sanding is the largest continuing expense in most shops.....plus it flat out sucks!.......do you have a dust collector capable of evacuating a sanding machine? if not stick to the handhelds `cause sanders don`t like dust on the workpiece........... if you`re dead set on a sanding machine the budgit comes into play....new for less than 10k you`re pretty much stuck with drum.....so shop first by horsepower......5hp minimum...that`s 25amp on 220! and that`s for each drum.......don`t try running a double drum on one 5hp motor...it`s faster to sand by hand....as you know i one finger out these responses so i`ll wait `till you give me more input before i type anymore
    CRAP!....I forgot about needing to evacuate the dust from the sanding machine. You've brought up other questions/conversation/discussion from me on sanders but they're all moot because of the DC thing. DANGIT.....Well, maybe I'll look at a Festool sander thingy. I do just fine with the handheld sander process. I was just thinking about speeding it up on doors and cutting boards.

    As far as the saw, whereas I AM a bonehead, I'm not silly enough to think that all of you top notch REAL woodworkers out there only use a left-tilt to turn out your awesome work. You right-tilt folks are used to using it (very well) and know how to deal with any idiosyncrasies that a right-tilt might present. Just the same for us left-tilt folks. I'm just more used to the left-tilt and I really don't care to go through the learning curve (as small as it may be) of the other.

    SO, anywhere from say.....2k to 4k for the TS (I've got a couple of other toys that I've already decided on ). I REALLY like the Biese fence. I guess anything is better than what I had but it is very nice. I might get one of those Bench Dog router table extensions to use for roundovers and other small, quick edging chores but that's not really a big deal. Since I can't fit the long rails into my workspace, I won't need the extra length add-ons. If I can keep 30" to 31" to the right I'm okay. AND, since I'm looking to get another left-tilt, I thought I"d just go ahead and get one of the new saws out with a riving knife and if it happens to have a brake on it, so much the better.

    I'd love to be able to order a MM16 and a 12" jointer but there is just NO room for them. I MIGHT be able to squeeze out some room to store a 6" or 8" jointer but it would require about 10 to 15 minutes just to get it into and out of it's storage spot. I sure could use a jointer sometimes; maybe I might think about squeezing in one of those G0490's.

    But mainly, since this is bonus money, I thought I'd treat myself to a nice shiny, brand new TS.
    Thanks, Mark.

    Custom Bonehead.

    My diet is working good. I'm down to needing just one chair now.

    "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

  7. #7
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    Mark,
    If the lack of a DC is preventing you to moving up to a widebelt sander then why don't you spring the $180.00 for the 1200 CFM 2 HP DC from Harbor Freight. That thing'll suck the chrome off of the bumper on a 55 Buick.
    "There’s a lot of work being done today that doesn’t have any soul in it. The technique may be the utmost perfection, yet it is lifeless. It doesn’t have a soul. I hope my furniture has a soul to it." - Sam Maloof
    The Pessimist complains about the wind; The Optimist expects it to change;The Realist adjusts the sails.~ William Arthur Ward

  8. #8
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    mark, the suggestion of a feeder was made in all seriousness......one will improve your work tremendously and the additional safety is an added bonus....cool thing is 4 bolts and you can move `em from one machine to another.......no need for push blocks, featherboards or safety saws.......but i`ve gotta admit that a new feeder would look much nicer on a new saw ..tod
    [SIZE="1"] associated with several importers and manufacturers.[/SIZE]

  9. #9
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    OK, I will ask since I don't know the answer. Whats the problem with a left tilt?? Thats all I have ever used so I don't see a problem... or should I ask whats the advantage to right tilt? PMaybe it's obvious, but it's not to me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Horton View Post
    OK, I will ask since I don't know the answer. Whats the problem with a left tilt?? Thats all I have ever used so I don't see a problem... or should I ask whats the advantage to right tilt? PMaybe it's obvious, but it's not to me.
    I surely don't know all the reasons, here's one that was explained to me recently...

    On a left tilt saw, the blade slides onto the arbor from right to left, so if you change the width of your blade, the little ruler scale on your fence rail will not accurately reflect the edge of the blade. On a right tilt saw, since the blade goes on the arbor from left to right, the (right-hand) edge of the blade is always in the same location relative to the fence scale, regardless of the blade thickness.

    Personally, I prefer a left-tilt saw because it fits my preferred way of cutting bevels, and since I use an Incra TS fence system, I can recalibrate the scale in a couple of seconds if I change blade thicknesses. I'm currently only using thin kerf blades on my saw, so the only time I need to tweak the scale is when I use a dado blade.

    Mark, I have the perfect solution for you...

    You need a left-tilt saw that's easy to move, and you need a router table. Howsabout you buy me a SawStop, and I'll give you my Ridgid TS3650, with the HercuLift mobile base, and the router table extension included for free. (Heck, I'll even throw in my MV12 router to go with.) Just PM me and I'll let you know where to have the SS delivered, and since I'm so big-hearted and generous, I'll personally deliver my TS3650 to you up there in CenCal. I'll even let you use the Tommy Lift to get it out of my truck.

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