urban sprawl, with Sketch UP

Like this?

6d2820ab.jpg
Yes Dave, thanks.
And thanks to Art for the input. You know that Dave, He is "Da Man!":eek: :rofl:




Hi Glenn, Thanks. Kind of you to say.:) I feel with Dave's expertise I am just along for the ride.:D
Fun so far, thanks Dave for driving:D .:rofl:
 
Alright gentlemen, Start your engines! :)
Thanks to Dave's diligence we have arrived at the finished outside rendering for the lower. Ok Dave, unless someone else has some input, what would you rather do now...Go on to the uppers, do a take off for materials and cutlist for the lowers, go more into the detail of construction and assembly, or go sailing on your Nice Boat?
I am not sure what would be most profitable to the viewers. Probably more boat pictures!:D
 
I'll have to find some more boat pictures. In the meantime, maybe we should define the construction details since that will impact the final dimensions of some of the components. After that we could repeat the process for the uppers and then develop dimensioned exploded views and a cut list if needed. We could also work out the process for getting out the parts with an eye toward reducing machine set up time. How does that sound?

Oh, and here's a gratuitous boat photo. :D

100_1167.jpg
 
Beautiful photo, what fun it must have been, out boating:) .
I think you have a good idea so let us begin with the left lower cabinet and work on the peculiarities of that one first.
My first thought is to view it where it lives. WHAT does that mean? :huh: It means, "that which is living on the left and right sides of the piece we are going to build affect the configuration of our cabinet". In this case we have a wall to the left which may or may not be a straightup neighbor, and on our right we have an ice machine which is a very cold neighbor.:rofl:
The wall most often tells me I need leave room to scribe the left stile while the fridgid friend on my right should be set perfectly plumb allowing for a flat side to settle against it.. Since this cabinet is sandwiched between the two there will be no need to dado for shelves or floor as we can nail or screw directly through the walls without that being visible. More later need to run.
Shaz
 
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Our attempt is to have 3/8'' of stile and rail showing above the drawer, to the left and right of the doors, and below the doors with a crack of 1/8" between doors and between the doors and drawer.
JandNoptions 3.jpg
We will surface all material to 3/4" and then run the lumber through the joiner to get a straight edge. The stile on the right will just cover the plywood side's edge. The bottom rail will be the same, usually 11/16" to 11/16" strong. The stile on the left will be 1 1/4" with an angle cut for the scribe, and the top rail will be 2 1/8" and stop at the top of the sides which are 35 3/4" tall. The stiles run full length ( from the bottom of the floor to the top of the side) and the rails fit in between.
 
Shaz, does this seem correct for the left stile to allow for the scribe? I put a 10° angle on the left edge of it. Do you leave more reveal between door and wall than the 3/8" on the other side? If not, I need to move the cabinet side and that stile to the right 1/2" and shorten the rails and toe kick as well as resize the doors. If the reveal is the same then I just need to move the cabinet side and stile and adjust the length of the horizontal members
Roberts_Project_cu1.jpg


I've made the gap between drawer front and door tops 1/8" as ordered.

As far as the dados are concerned, I'm curious. Even though the sides of the cabinet won't be visible, my inclination would be to use dados to make assembly easier. I would cut the dados before separating the side panels. In the case of the right hand cabinet with the wrap around toe kick, I would cut that side like the other but without its toe kick notch, cut the dado across the piece and then separate it into the two sides. Finally I would cut off the bottom on that one side piece to turn that into a rabbet.

I would make the sides for both cabinets using the same procedures because this would reduce operation setups and reduce the chance for errors on my part.

Like this:
cabinetsides.jpg
 
Shaz, does this seem correct for the left stile to allow for the scribe? Yes, Dave that is correct. Since the stile is flush to the cabinet side I can mount my drawer slides right on the side itself.I put a 10° angle on the left edge of it. I usually make mine a 45 (How do I make the little circle for 'degrees'?) Much easier to scribe and block plane, plus it is a protected edge when finished. Do you leave more reveal between door and wall than the 3/8" on the other side? No, the reveal is the same at 3/8" on each side. I will use 110 degree full overlay hinges on the left and 160 degree half overlay hinges on the right. If not, I need to move the cabinet side and that stile to the right 1/2" and shorten the rails and toe kick as well as resize the doors. If the reveal is the same then I just need to move the cabinet side and stile and adjust the length of the horizontal members... This is a very interesting rendition you have in sketch up! I guess it is just turned in orbit mode.
Roberts_Project_cu1.jpg


I've made the gap between drawer front and door tops 1/8" as ordered. Thank you , Sir.

As far as the dados are concerned, I'm curious. Even though the sides of the cabinet won't be visible, my inclination would be to use dados to make assembly easier. I would cut the dados before separating the side panels. In the case of the right hand cabinet with the wrap around toe kick, I would cut that side like the other but without its toe kick notch, cut the dado across the piece and then separate it into the two sides. Finally I would cut off the bottom on that one side piece to turn that into a rabbet.

This method of work makes alot of sense and for some of folks it would be a great way to do it and would work out well with their thought process. It is different from the way I do it, let me explain a different school of thought. Let us assume that the sides are the same depth ( front to back)
and the same height. Now we need some horizontal pieces :D or the walls would fall over:eek: . As I look at it, I need horizontal pieces and why not make them the same width? Okay let's do that.
We need 2-22 1/8" wide for the toe kick,
We need 1-22 1/8" wide for the floor,
We need 1-22 1/8" cleat through which we will screw the box to the wall,
We need 3 or 4 -22 1/8" spacers laying flat at the top of the cabinet ( eliminates the corner blocks) nailed to spread the sides, back up the top rail, reinforce the cleat at the top back and offer a center spacer that can also be screwed through into the deck top. That is the main reason I don't dado because it throws off my "one width" thinking. Don't get me wrong, I like dados:rolleyes: but since the advent of the metric system and the thinning of sheet goods, primarily the 3/4", 1/2" and the 1/4" to 11/16" , 7/16" and 3/16" my old expensive dado set makes me look bad.:( But, different strokes, what ever works and makes one contented!:thumb:


I would make the sides for both cabinets using the same procedures because this would reduce operation setups and reduce the chance for errors on my part.

Like this:
cabinetsides.jpg
I
Hi again Dave:wave: ,
In the drawing directly above this typing, I can understand your logic. Were it me doing it this way I would also, while the dado blade was set to height, use it to rabbet the top edge of each piece for spacers the same width as the floor and then rabbet a track for the 1/4" back in each edge of the plywood. This at least assures us of having a parallelogram and probably a true rectangle at least in the back,:rofl: once the plywood back is installed.
Shaz
I like the simplicity of your Sketch Up step by step sheet goods cut up shown above. Nice work!:)
 
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Shaz,

First a comment about the drawing of the cutting sequence. Like you I would cut a rabbet at the top and I'd use the same setup to cut a dado down the centerline so I would have a rabbet for a back panel once the parts are separated.

I understand the issue with metric plywood thicknesses and imperial dado stacks. I guess I would spend a little time with a caliper and some shims to set my dado stack. Once that's done, all the dados and rabbets for all the cases in the batch could be cut in one go with the only adjustment being to the rip fence. (This would be moot in the UK, by the way, where dado stacks are all but forbidden. Most table saws sold in the UK won't accept a dado set anyway.)

Next, to answer your question about the °. Hold the Alt key down while you type 0176 on the numeric keypad on the right end of your keyboard.

I'm still trying to understand the reveal and scribing business. In the following drawing I've set the bevel to 45°. The front of that stile is 1½" wide. My question is, how much of that bevel will you plane away when scribing? Do you use a divider set at ¾" to run along the wall and get a line to scribe to?

Maybe I should be asking this: Is the ⅜" reveal on the side near the wall the minimum reveal? There might be a bit morein some places do to the lack of flattness or lack or squareness of the wall?

ec8c12d2.jpg


BTW, ½ is done with Alt+0189, ¾ is Alt+0190 and ⅜ is just copied out of the Character Map found under Programs>Accessories. You can also do ¼ (Alt+0188). :type: :thumb: :D
 
Shaz, Response from Shaz

First a comment about the drawing of the cutting sequence. Like you I would cut a rabbet at the top and I'd use the same setup to cut a dado down the centerline so I would have a rabbet for a back panel once the parts are separated. This sounds like a good idea.

I understand the issue with metric plywood thicknesses and imperial dado stacks. I guess I would spend a little time with a caliper and some shims to set my dado stack. Once that's done, all the dados and rabbets for all the cases in the batch could be cut in one go with the only adjustment being to the rip fence. This too sounds like a workable idea if the dado and rabbet are to be a major part of the construction.(This would be moot in the UK, by the way, where dado stacks are all but forbidden. Most table saws sold in the UK won't accept a dado set anyway.)

Next, to answer your question about the °. Hold the Alt key down while you type 0176 on the numeric keypad on the right end of your keyboard.
I tried this and everytime I got to the 7 my monitor reverted to the home page and erased my input,:huh: Maybe a clue?:type: :rofl: Maybe not.:rolleyes: :rofl:

I'm still trying to understand the reveal and scribing business. In the following drawing I've set the bevel to 45°. The front of that stile is 1½" wide. My question is, how much of that bevel will you plane away when scribing? Do you use a divider set at ¾" to run along the wall and get a line to scribe to? I am glad you brought this up Dave, most of your concern is due to "Origination error from incorrect information on my part :doh: ". Use this, it is what will work. "SET BEVEL TO 22 - 35 dgrees max. with the stile face being 1 3/8". :D I plan to block plane off the bevel to plumb the cabinet, maybe ¼" in places. That will get us close to that 3/8" reveal on the left of the door when we use the full over lay hinges on that side.

Maybe I should be asking this: Is the ⅜" reveal on the side near the wall the minimum reveal? Actually the 3/8" is the targeted reveal. There might be a bit more in some places do to the lack of flattness or lack or squareness of the wall? Yes, correct and that is something we need just work with and go on.:type:

ec8c12d2.jpg

My initial input of 45 degrees for the scribe was wrong as we can't cut the stile that way and still have ¾" nailed to the face of the plywood edge. Sorry to cause the confusion.:(
BTW, ½ is done with Alt+0189, ¾ is Alt+0190 and ⅜ is just copied out of the Character Map found under Programs>Accessories. You can also do ¼ (Alt+0188). :type: :thumb: :D Thanks alot! for what may seem superfluous here. I really appreciate your considerate input.
Hopefully this will clear up any confusion:)
Shaz
 
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Sorry for the delay in continuing here. I got tied up with other things.

So here's the last iteration. 30° bevel on the left stile. Rabbets cut on top edges and back edges of side panels. (I guess I don't know if we're doing rabbets or not.) How's this work for you?

Roberts_Project_detail.jpg


As to the degree sign, are you holding the Alt key the entire time you're typing the 0176 on the numeric keypad? You're not holding Ctrl or hitting the Windows key are you?
 
Wow!!! Thank you both for your public collaboration on this project!! This is a great way to learn how to do this stuff. I'm still a SU newbie. It's going to take me a while to figure it out. I'm very interested in your process, and have learned a lot just from this thread!!

For typing the symbols, press and hold the alt key while typing the entire number. ² < that is alt+0178. You won't see it until you release the alt key after typing the four numbers.
 
Sorry for the delay in continuing here. I got tied up with other things. Dear Dave, your intervention at any time is greatly appreciated. Shaz

So here's the last iteration. 30° bevel on the left stile. Rabbets cut on top edges and back edges of side panels. (I guess I don't know if we're doing rabbets or not.) We are, but only on the right side of the right lower cabinet.This makes it more detailed for the Sketch Up plan and I can imagine doing this this way is frustrating to you. At times I am verbose and unclear.How's this work for you? Very nice except we are using full over lay hinges on the left side, covering ¾" of the stile. This is a handsome rendering.:wave:
Roberts_Project_detail.jpg


As to the degree sign, are you holding the Alt key the entire time you're typing the 0176 on the numeric keypad? Yes I am doing that and at the 7 it reverts back to my att yahoo home page.?? You're not holding Ctrl or hitting the Windows key are you? No, it just doesn't like the little zero!!!:rofl:

Wow!!! Thank you both for your public collaboration on this project!! This is a great way to learn how to do this stuff. I'm still a SU newbie. It's going to take me a while to figure it out. I'm very interested in your process, and have learned a lot just from this thread!! Thank you Sandy, that is the intent, I can build these cabinets all day long and Dave can do SU in his sleep, but we are trying to figure a way we can do both for the benefit of many. :wave: All input is valuable, in fact without it we never know what is valuable information and what is of no help.:rolleyes: For typing the symbols, press and hold the alt key while typing the entire number. ² < that is alt+0178. You won't see it until you release the alt key after typing the four numbers.
Hi Sandy and Dave,
Alt+017 is a long cut to my home page:D you guys are slick! Remember, you are dealing with a computer bumpkin.:wave:
Shaz
 
Robert, It's easy enough to remove the rabbets and since three of the four side panels are identical, it only takes a few moments to edit them out.

If I understand you right I need to add 5/16" to the width of each of the doors on the left lower cabinet. In addition I need to add 5/8" to the width of the drawer front. The centerline between the doors will be slightly off center of the opening in the cabinet. Is that correct? :huh:

Weird thing about that computer of yours. I wonder if you can change the longcut to your Yahoo page? Well, you can always get the degree mark by going to Start>Programs>Accessories>Character Map and copying the sign.
 
Robert, It's easy enough to remove the rabbets and since three of the four side panels are identical, it only takes a few moments to edit them out.

If I understand you right I need to add 5/16" to the width of each of the doors on the left lower cabinet. In addition I need to add 5/8" to the width of the drawer front. Hi Dave, I think that would be correct.The centerline between the doors will be slightly off center of the opening in the cabinet. Is that correct? :huh: No, the doors need be exactly the same width with the center line centered, once the doors are opened the discrepancy becomes obvious with the half over lay hinge on the right and the full overlay hinge on the left..here is an elementary school rendition of sketch up...:D
Jand Nic.jpg
Your stuff looks so much better but I like playing with the cursor in "paint":D :rofl:

Weird thing about that computer of yours. I wonder if you can change the longcut to your Yahoo page? Well, you can always get the degree mark by going to Start>Programs>Accessories>Character Map and copying the sign.
I will try it...
Thanks for working with me on this Dave, you are such an ICON :eek: ,a kind ICON :D , or... a kind of an Icon:rolleyes: when it come to Sketch Up.:D :D I am sure you are an Icon at home too.:thumb:
Shaz:)
 
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I think we're getting there. Notice the rabbets are gone and the left end of the drawer face and doors line up with the outside of the left side of the cabinet.
Roberts_Project_detail2.jpg


An icon, huh? You mean like this?
Icon
Nah. More like this:
Icon
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
I think we're getting there. Notice the rabbets are gone and the left end of the drawer face and doors line up with the outside of the left side of the cabinet. (Response) Yes, well done and with the remaining visible stile on the left ( 5/8" showing) we have that ¼" we can lose with a block plane by scribing the line of the wall. Shaz
Roberts_Project_detail2.jpg


An icon, huh? You mean like this?
Icon
Nah. More like this:
Icon
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You are very creative Dave. Colorful too:D .
With this new configuration we need figure out the toe kick which has the scribe issue also. This time I will be cutting out the notch for the toe kick on two sides of the left cabinet and only one side on the right cabinet due to the over hang on the far right. For the toe kick, Often I will notch my sides on the table saw and then cover the vertical face of the notch with ¾"X ¾" solid stock. Then I can fill in between them with the same width 22 1/8" ( left to right) piece as the floor, the top spreaders and the back piece of the toe kick as well as the cleat use for screwing through to the wall.In this case on the left side of the left cabinet I will cover the toe kick notch with the same 30 degree bevel as the stile above it, thus allowing the scribe of the toe kick to occur.
Shaz
I have been delayed by a power outage that completely erased an earlier response.:eek: :doh:
 
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