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Thread: Bolt Question

  1. #1
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    Bolt Question

    OK gang, I've got that stack of PT lumber, and some of them will wind up doubled up as the rim Joist of my 'foundation' for my shop.

    I'm pretty well settled that bolting them together plus some construction adhesive is the best way to secure them, overkill perhaps, but I'd rather pull a Marty and overdo it than not.

    OK, so I'm going to bolt them together, what size fastener should I get?
    I'm leaning toward 1/2" bolts, washers on both faces of the boards.

    Now, how frequent should I bolt them? I'm thinking every foot or so, with one w/in 6" of each end as well.

    Thanks for any/all advice as always.
    -Ned

  2. #2
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    Ned,

    When I built my deck, I had PT 2x8s doubled up as the rim joists. We put them together using a framing nailer and a whole-lot-a nails. Its been about 5 years and no problems so far.

    Edit: The nails were galvanized, and probably ring shank, but I can't remember that part.
    Last edited by Sean Wright; 06-05-2007 at 12:57 PM.
    We create with our hands in wood what our mind sees in thought.
    Disclosure: Formerly was a part-time sales person & instructor at WoodCraft in Buffalo, NY.
    www.tinyurl.com/thewoodshoppe

  3. #3
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    Yeah Ned most in most cases the framing code calls out for 16d nails at 16" centers staggered with a few extra at the ends.

    But if you do want to do overkill I would go with 3/8" to 1/2" bolts staggered on 24" centers with two bolts at each end. You also could go with carraige bolts so you wouldn't need any washer on the outside and they could be tightened flush so they wouldn't stick out for any future sheeting. Regular bolts might require notching your outside sheeting depending on what you do for exterior treatment.

    Doug

  4. #4
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    I've always nailed such things, so I haven't much idea on the bolts. When we nailed our two and three ply roof trusses the plans called for a variety of patterns, usually two rows, between 4" and 9" OC depending on which part of the truss. I would guess trusses need a lot more overkill to keep drywall joints from popping, etc. So at a guess, I'd say two rows (is it a 2x8? 2x10?), staggered, bolt every 12" to 18". But that's just a guess

    Get the best quality fasteners you can, hot dipped galvanized or even stainless if available, the new PT is reputed to eat steel for breakfast

    (Looks like Doug's got you some actual informed numbers, so I'd probably follow his rather than mine )
    Last edited by John Dow; 06-03-2007 at 04:02 PM. Reason: too slow!

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys, I wasn't sure if nailing was going to be 'enough' or not.

    I would definitely go with carriage bolts if I go that route, and my fastener store has the works, on up to some serious bolts that I would have to buy new tools to tighten down.

    Nails sound good though. And of course I know where to get those. Gotta buy a new hammer, mine evaporated somewhere.
    -Ned

  6. #6
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    ned! by all means get good galvinized nails if you go with nails.. look up on jlc.com for info on treated lumber eating steel fastners..this new stuff is hungry for steel.. i have seen instances where in a years time regular nails were all but gone.. no i didnt do it i fixed it used screws made for the stuff.
    If in Doubt, Build it Stout!
    One hand washes the other!
    Don't put off today till tomorrow!

  7. #7
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    Ned,

    First, sorry to not responding sooner, but I've been even busier than I usually am

    As for bolts or nails, and the schedule, for what it's worth I used what the engineer speced out on my triple LVL main beams. He called for 16d nails, in rows of two's (one near the top, the other near the bottom)...and on 24" centers.

    Being who I am, and how I like to overdo things, I used 16d nails, but I put them on 16" centers, and drove a staggered course in from the other side so I had them nailed from each side. Twice the nails, but cheap insurance from where I was pounding!

    A few fine points...

    Regardless of the fastener, as others have already mentioned, PT lumber will completely dissolve relgular fasteners in less than a year. Whatever you chose MUST be galvanized...(or stainless if you're feeling rich!)

    If you decide on bolts, do a careful layout of the boards, noting where other boards (joists) will be joinng your rims. Do what you can to lay out your bolts so that they won't interfere with your joist hangers (or toenailing). (Same thing with your plates and whatever anchor bolts you chose to use.)

    If you decide to use nails, which is what I'd do, you may want to SERIOUSLY consider getting your hands on a pnuematic framing nailer! Driving 16d nails into PT lumber is NOT EASY!!!

    I just took a quick look on ebay and you can get your hands on a used Paslode gun for under $100. That gun will be your friend for the remainder of your framing work as well. And if you don't, (or can't) get an air nailer, think about a good heavy Estwing (or similar) hammer. 28-30 ounces of steel helps build momentum to drive those long nails home!

    Oh, and one final thing about nails...if you chose to use nails, consider ring shanks. They hold WAY better, especially in PT lumber. The additional cost is nothing when you consider the adding holding power.

    Just a few things to think about...good luck...
    - Marty -
    Fivebraids, Inc.
    When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there’s no end to what you can’t do…

  8. #8
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    Marty,
    I'll either beg/borrow or other wise acquire a nail gun. Grizzz has a source that we can borrow one from, and if he doesn't I think I know someone I can tap nearby too. My fastener shop has all the fixins, and the only reason I didn't buy some last weekend was I didn't know what gun we're going to use and what to spec for that. I think the bolts will stay at the store, since the proper type of 16D nails seem to be the acceptable answer.

    I got coated screws for securing the floor to the PT planning ahead for the nasty stuff. What does that stuff do to a sawblade?
    -Ned

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Bulken View Post
    I got coated screws for securing the floor to the PT planning ahead for the nasty stuff. What does that stuff do to a sawblade?
    Ned,

    You shouldn't have any problems with your saw blades and PT lumber. The problem with it eating the fasteners is that the fasteners are burried in the PT. 24 hours a day for as long as your structure stands, the chemicals in the PT are munching away at the fasteners.

    If you were to store your blades in the kerf you cut with them, in the PT, then you might have a problem. But thats not something that I have ever heard of anyone doing. Even then the steel would suffer, but I don't know what effect the PT would have on the carbide tips.

    If you're still concerned about your blades, then you could wash & dry them after you finish cutting every day.... just to be safe.
    We create with our hands in wood what our mind sees in thought.
    Disclosure: Formerly was a part-time sales person & instructor at WoodCraft in Buffalo, NY.
    www.tinyurl.com/thewoodshoppe

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Bulken View Post
    Marty,
    I'll either beg/borrow or other wise acquire a nail gun. Grizzz has a source that we can borrow one from, and if he doesn't I think I know someone I can tap nearby too. My fastener shop has all the fixins, and the only reason I didn't buy some last weekend was I didn't know what gun we're going to use and what to spec for that. I think the bolts will stay at the store, since the proper type of 16D nails seem to be the acceptable answer.

    I got coated screws for securing the floor to the PT planning ahead for the nasty stuff. What does that stuff do to a sawblade?
    Ned,

    Glad you're thinking air nailer. It's the ONLY way to go!

    I used ring shank nails to attach my Advantech subfloor. Once again, that framing gun was my good bud!

    Screws will certainly work as well, if not better than ring shanks. I just had WAY too much floor to consider using screws!

    And like Sean said, don't even worry about PT lumber and tooling. It won't be in contact with the harsh checmicals long enough for you to worry!

    - Marty -
    Fivebraids, Inc.
    When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there’s no end to what you can’t do…

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