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Thread: Dust extraction and cyclones

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Catalunya
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    Dust extraction and cyclones

    Being on the way of setting up my new workshop, I'm giving it a tought about setting up some sort of dust extraction with a cyclone.

    I've looked at Bill Pentz cyclone page, and some others but I'm quite puzzled because everything ends up needing at least 5 hp and 1000cfm if I want to have good fine dust extraction, and this ends with needing a 3 phase outlet.

    Has any of you other experience than this, I've seen Frank's Pellow workshop set up using an Oneida cyclone but I think that is 3 phase as well, and I'd like to know how good is it at picking up fine dust not only wood chips.

    Any suggestion will be welcome.

    BTW I have a single phase 220V 50hz power source.
    Best regards,
    Toni

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    I dare say that 3 and 5 horsepower single phase motors are plenty common. You aren't tied into 3-phase for your DC by any stretch, I don't think.
    Jason Beam
    Sacramento, CA

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    363
    Toni,

    I think the problems you might face with 220v. single phase is wire size and available amperage. You are going to need a 220v. 30 amp circuit to run the 5 hp motor Bill P. talks about, and that will require 10 ga wire for the circuit. I don't recall seeing many circuits that big the last time I was in Spain. If you can get the volts and amps to the motor you don't need to worry about 3 phase.

  4. #4
    Don't get discouraged -- if you need a 30a, 220v circuit, remember that this is just like a clothes dryer circuit. It is not anything really special (just a little bit special).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Heart of Dixie
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    Well, obviously there might be differences in our locations. But 5hp single phase motors are readily available (not cheaply though) here. Nothing special about that and no need to go to 3 phase power.

    But as I said, that might not be the case in Spain.

    Jeff
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inside the Beltway
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    2,666
    Toni,

    I guess this debate has raged a long time, and we won't solve it today... I suppose we could divide it into the pragmatic vs. perfectionist approach. And while I strongly admire those who take the time to make brilliantly concieved dust solutions, I suppose I belong on the pragmatist side. My first question is "what's the best available option, given my circumstances and conditions." Thus, I would argue it's better to do what's doable now, and see the solution as a means to an end. I spent many a year in Nice, so I know some of the challenges you're facing. I guess the best thought I have is that you should consider putting what you can into place, as soon as you can, rather than worrying about the ideal set up...

    Just a thought,

    Thanks,

    Bill

  7. #7
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    My Pentz inspired Clear Vue with the Pentz recommended Leeson motor is 220 single phase. Now, if the availability of 3 phase is there and can be done cheaply enough, and the motors are less, as they seem to be here, then no problem doing that. But I'm reading into your comment that 3 phase might be a bit of a pain. If so, then single phase 5hp motors, as the other have said, should be fine. Is there a problem finding 5hp single phase 50 cycle motors? Jim.
    Coolmeadow Setters...
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Many thanks to all of you.

    To Bill Lantry, thanks for your comment, I think I was getting into tunnel vision regarding that.
    Yes, I agree with you in doing what can be done at the moment as fast as possible and regarding it as a mean to achieve the ultimate goal, but I hate doing things twice, paying twice, and spending twice the time needed although this would have to be divided by the elapsed time between the first and the second intervention.

    My first approach has been getting a bag dust collector and then move onto a cyclone system with ducting all over the shop and everything, nothing wrong with that I guess, after all I think that most of us started that way.

    However, knowing that "provisional" things tend to become definitive I'm hesitating about that. I will have to make my mind up about that, it is the usual "fish or cut bait" dilemma I guess


    To Jim O'Dell.

    Thanks Jim for your input, as far as 5hp 220V single phase motors are concerned, well yes, I'm having trouble in finding them here, as soon as you get over 2,5hp they jump onto three phase. I'll keep searching. I'll look at Leeson web page.

    Maybe the easyest way would be asking the electricity company what would cost to upgrade my contract to 3 phase.
    Best regards,
    Toni

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________
    web site:http://www.toniciuraneta.com
    I also dream of a shop with north light where my hands can be busy, my soul rest and my mind wander...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Heart of Dixie
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    4,265
    Quote Originally Posted by Toni Ciuraneta View Post
    .....Maybe the easyest way would be asking the electricity company what would cost to upgrade my contract to 3 phase.

    Assuming there is no difference in the methods used, that would not be a cheap option. It would require a new main panel as your single phase panel and breakers wouldn't work. Here, 3 phase panels are not cheap either.
    God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
    the good fortune to run into the ones I do,
    and the eyesight to tell the difference.


    Kudzu Craft Lightweight Skin on frame Kayaks.
    Custom built boats and Kits

  10. #10
    I don't want to hijack the post but I thought I'd let you know what I did for my new shop. I have a 24x24' shop and installed a 3hp Woodtek DC. It is located in a separate room with the ducting running through the wall. I had to run a 30amp circuit to power it with 10ga wire. The unit runs on 19amps but the startup bumps it up over 25amps then drops back down.

    I have 12 blast gates supplied by Penn State Ind. They are part of the Long Ranger system so each gate will turn on and off the DC. The challenge was that the DC had its own magnetic switch but with the help of Dave Laird from Woodworkers Supply we figured out how to replace the Woodtek switch with the Penn State one. From the appearance of the units they both seem to be made at the same factory. It works like a charm and my dust problem is practically non existent. The Long Ranger switch has to be their biggest one which is capable of running 220/440 but well worth the price.

    http://www.woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FU...ARTNUM=961-948

    http://www.pennstateind.com/store/lrmsethd.html

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