My own bandsaw question.

Jim O'Dell

Member
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2,783
Location
Between Aledo and Fort Worth, TX
Well, I ran out of wood to use this weekend on the multistation benches. Bob brought me the levellers, so I got them on. :dunno: What to do next? So I tuned up the TS and used my dial guage and magnetic base for the first time, (The one I used the winning gift certificate for from one of the SMC drawings) Arbor less than 1/1000th variation. Not bad for Ridgid!:D Blade is about 3 to 4 thou out. Oh well.
Oh yeah, band saw. So I finish the TS and say what's next? Then I hear the MM E16 yelling "ME!!! ME!!! IT'S MY TURN, DONT YA THINK???" So I do my best to remember what Sam told me on the phone, what, a year ago?? :eek: Turn each top and bottom screw 3 turns....Just kidding Sam! :rofl: actually ended up going 1/4 turn, lock things back down and install the 1/4" blade. Tracks great!! Adjust the top wheel with a few problems getting the hang of things, then go to the guide bearings. No problem on the side bearings top and bottom, bottom thrust bearing easy to adjust. Top thrust bearing...HUH??? hits the guide bar and is still about 3/8" or so from the back of the blade. DSCN1524.jpg Is this the same problem people have discussed on SMC on the MM16? I'm guessing I need to mark this, take it apart and cut out the area so that the bearing will move forward? Just want to make sure before I go whacking into this bandsaw. I know it's 2 years old, but it's never been used, not even by a little old lady on Sundays!!:D Any help you can give will be muchly appreciated. Jim.
 
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Thanks Steve. Glad to hear that. Especially since I went ahead and cut it before I saw your post!!:D DSCN1532.jpg
So I decided to make a couple cuts. My ducting had fallen off the BS, so I stuck it back on, but it needs some silicone again, to make these 2 cuts. Tried to open the bottom door with the cyclone running. Man, any dust that gets to the pick up area won't have a chance to get to the lower wheel housing!!! Made these cuts with the 1/4" blade, probably not tensioned enough. DSCN1531.jpgNot bad!!! I think it's a keeper.
Did have a little episode of frustration when I pushed the button to start the saw....nothing. Now I have run it before, and it started everytime. I'm thinking, now I've got the door switch problem too? Finally dawned on me that I might have had the breaker off when the roof tried to leak a couple weeks ago. (Hasn't done it again since, and we've had rain) Sure enough, breaker off.:eek: Fired right up. I'm stopping early today. It's been a very good day! Jim.
 
Hi Jim. I don't think you should have to cut the housing. My MM16 2003 model has an ell bracket that goes from the blade cover to the the back of the guide lift rod.

MM-thrust-bearing.jpg

That bracket fixes the cover about 3/4" above the thrust bearing. There is no way the two can interfere with each other. I would call MM tomorrow and find out what is going on. While your fix does work, it just ain't right.:huh: If I read your picture correctly, you will have difficulty adjusting the bearing to the blade.
 
Ken, your's looks like the picture that Pete Bradley posted to my note on SMC. He got the picture off the MM website. I seem to remember some having to make this adjustment on their MM16s. Maybe it is the new ones like Steve has. Obviously a change was made in how they made these pieces for the saws. Either they missed the cut and didn't catch it, or just totally messed up on designing the thing, I don't know. But my modification works well, doesn't affect the integrity of the piece, or it's ability to do it's job safely. My bet is this is what MM would say to do. Thanks for the note!! Jim.

ps. You know, going back and looking at my before picture, you can see that it was cut out at the factory, they just didn't go far enough forward for a small blade. I remember it working fine with the 3/4" blade when I had it on once upon a time. So it's just a problem they didn't forsee with a small blade.
 
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Thanks Sam. Warranty, what warranty? You mean these things came with a warranty?:rofl:
That is a neat idea for "cool blocks". But your picture shows the same set up that Ken shows. The u-channel that mine has comes down infront of the thrust bearing. I guess I could have cut a piece of the phenolic in a cube that fit up in the channel, and cut the kerf in the front edge for the back of the blade to ride in and held in place with the thrust bearing, like you did. Probably would have worked very well. Actually, I could still do that, and might, if I need to run a smaller blade than 1/4". Thanks for the pictures!! Jim.
 
Yep Jim. I got my picture at the MM site also. It looks like my saw....
Regardless of the picture I still think that there is something missing on your saw. The MM people are to smart to market something that doesn't work without the customer getting out the hacksaw.
 
Admittedly I don't know much about this.... but doesn't the friction from the blade melt the plastic blocks?

(Not Sam, But....),
Sean, if he were using PLASTIC, it probably would melt from the heat, BUT, Sam is using Phenolic, and that material will last a long time in this application, and for sure, Won't Melt. :D
 
Thanks Ken, but I don't think anything is missing, just different. I'm sure Sam will scope one out and let me know if it is wrong. But I think it's a different design. Remember mine is the E16, not the regular MM16. I do appreciate the concern, and I will check into it. Jim.
 
You know, that voids your warranty now.:rofl:

Yep, that mod will work. This is what I do for 1/4" blades:

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n313/postcromag/Jigs and Mods/Small blade guide blocks/

This way I never have to move my guides, they just act like a vice for the small blade block. Simple, silly, very effective.

Thanks for those pictures. I was having trouble visualizing what was being discussed. I know it has been said that phenolic is pretty tough stuff. But, still, your set up bothers me. Anything short of carbide is going to wear with that blade constantly against it. Then the blade would wear. I don't understand the practicality. And, you said you don't have to adjust. Is that just with one blade size or any blade.
 
Frank, hopefully Sam will pipe in here again, but I think if he had worded it that he doesn't have to remove his guides, that it would make more sense. Coolblocks usually replace the bearings. This way he doesn't have to pull them off to go to a small blade. Time savings, and actually a larger surface for the blade to be guided in to boot. And if you kerf the phenolic block with the blade, the kerf is wider than the back of the blade. Of course it will touch when the blade is pushed one way or the other, but I don't think the coolblocks or phenolic material has a high friction rating, which is why it works so well for this. Jim.
 
But your picture shows the same set up that Ken shows. Jim.

Maybe because that is a picture of my bandsaw they are posting. :) My blade guard is an older version, it doesn't extend to cover the guides like the newer bandsaws. Us folks with the older Centauros should be using the plastic guide cover for extra protection, but I don't know if many of us actually use it. I know I never have. That is part of the reason for the change. As for the phenolic blocks hurting the teeth, just doesn't happen, plus the kerf isn't deep enough to allow that, and the kerf is bigger than the blade thickness, so there is some play. If the kerf wears too deep, then I just make a new one. All I'm trying to do with the block is to keep the blade from walking back. I could care less about any side of blade guidance. Just isn't necessary. I have that size blade on for curved work and I want the blade to be able to twist. If you don't have any scrap phenolic lying around you could easily make the blocks out of hard maple or teak, and if you want to go the extra mile, keep them in a mineral oil bath until you are ready to use them (that was my grandfather's system when he used wood instead of the original metal blocks on his Delta/Milwaukee 14").

As for adjusting the set up it would work the same with just about any blade. I load the blade, keep the guides open and out of play, track it where I want it, then load the blocks, holding them lightly in place against the back of the blade and start tightening the disc guides. Lastly, I bring the thrust bearing up and lock it against the back of the block. Simple and effective, but may not be for everyone, especially anyone who feels that the guides need to be positioned with machinist like precision.
 
OK Jim, I hope you get the problem resolved to your satisfaction.

Have you asked over on the Mini-Max forum?

Just trying to be helpful:thumb:
 
Well, I'm going to jump in here and have my say :rolleyes:

I hope I don't start something, but if I do, that was not my intention..... honest.

I really think that one of the reasons that Sam can do this neat blade block support thing is the saw he has.

I've run a fair number of 14" bandsaws, some really good ones, like the older Delta saws, and some really poor quality ones, no names need be mentions, in fact some of them were literally "XYZ Corp" type of saws.

In building my own saw, I really do see where the money lies in a bandsaw, that is how well it is made, and the research, and refinement that goes into a good saw.

Every time a corner is cut to save a buck the end result is the quality will suffer, and somewhere along the line, you get to the tipping point, where the tool is just simply poorly made.

I'm NOT singling out any maker, I'm just saying that there is a reason why the better saws cost more, they are better built, thought out, and researched, they are not a poor copy of a 50 year old design.

Now, if you have a sub par quality 14" saw, but you spend the time and effort to tune it up to the best it can be, it will work better than the much more expensive saws that are not set up correctly.......right? I think most would agree with that....OK?

The thing is, the MM saws, are very well made, I'm talking about the design, and the execution of the design. One of the reasons, IMHO that Sam can be using a 3/4" blade, and then switch to a 1\4" blade, and put in his 1/2" phenolic guide block and not have to reset everything is that the saw is well made.

Most of the 14" bandsaws that I worked on, that were NOT set up correctly used the guides and especially the thrust bearing to hold the blade on the wheel where the operator wanted it to be, this is, of course, backwards, but that is the way too many people set up their bandsaws.

I would be really impressed if most of the low price point 14" bandsaws out there could be tuned to the level of the better quality 14" inch saws on the market, or the MM or comparable saws.

I guess it comes down to the old saying, "You get what you pay for"

:D
 
OK Jim, I hope you get the problem resolved to your satisfaction.

Have you asked over on the Mini-Max forum?

Just trying to be helpful:thumb:

Ken, I know you have my best interest at heart. Hope I didn't give a reason for anyone to think otherwise. In my mind, it is resolved. The 1/16" slice that was nice and consistant throughout, even though it was pine, tells me that this will work. I cut a tight turn in some baltic birch ply, and that too went smoothly. It did burn a little. I used one of the special grinding blocks on the back of the blade to round it after that cut.
As far as the MM forum, I am a member, but there is very little information about the E16 there. More members here have this saw than at the MM site. :eek:
And I appreciate the help, honest.
And Sam makes it sound like all the new units have this type of guide, which is probably why I'm remembering this cut for some reason.
Thanks all! Jim.
 
The thing is, the MM saws, are very well made, I'm talking about the design, and the execution of the design. One of the reasons, IMHO that Sam can be using a 3/4" blade, and then switch to a 1\4" blade, and put in his 1/2" phenolic guide block and not have to reset everything is that the saw is well made.

Most of the 14" bandsaws that I worked on, that were NOT set up correctly used the guides and especially the thrust bearing to hold the blade on the wheel where the operator wanted it to be, this is, of course, backwards, but that is the way too many people set up their bandsaws.

I would have to agree. Refinement and subtlety can be taught to a saw, but strength, brawn and build quality needs to be there in the beginning. If my saw wasn't as strong as it is the guides would be much more important, taking on the double role of trackers, too. But there are many good aftermarket products out there to spruce up the 14" style saws we grew up on, to help turn them into really good bandsaws. My grandfather's Delta/Milwaukee I mentioned earlier is on its 3rd motor and still cutting admirably.
 
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