Don't install RUBBER bandsaw tires this way......

Stuart Ablett

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Tokyo Japan
Well, I finally got round to putting the rubber bandsaw tires on the Phoenix, or I should say I "Tried" to install them....... :bang:

I followed the instructions that came with the tires, I cleaned the rims of the wheels REALLY good with Lacquer Thinner, just like it says.........
instructions.jpg

Once I had the rims really clean, I stretched the tires on, then I put a 1" diameter steel rod between the wheel rim and the tire........
tire_rod_start.jpg

I got the glue ready, with some rubber gloves.........
glue_gloves.jpg

I made up an applicator and put some glue on it, and proceeded to spread the glue as the instructions state, on the tire and the rim...........
glue_applicator.jpg
..messy job. After I'd done that, I had a fair bit of squeeze out on the rims, and as the glue is this black sticky stuff, I thought it would be a good idea to clean the glue up, while it was still somewhat wet, so I got out the lacquer thinner again and cleaned things up................ BIG MISTAKE :(

I left the wheels with the newly installed tires on them for about 40 hours, as I was busy doing other stuff.

Tonight I tried to "Crown" the wheels, but they had turned to sponge :bang:

bottom_wheel_goo.jpg bottom_wheel_goo_close1.jpg
They would not sand, I tired, I was using some #80 paper, then some #120, no change, the tires are S-O-F-T :(

bottom_wheel_tire_grows.jpg
They are now sticking out over the rims in several spots, and to show you HOW soft..........

bottom_wheel_tire_soft.jpg

That soft.........bad words were said, lots of them :bang:

wheel_width.jpg
The tires were 1" and 1" is 25.4 mm, so they should have fit just fine.

Oh, this is the way I drove the top wheel to try sanding it.........
top_wheel_driver.jpg
.....this worked well, too bad I was trying to sand sticky sponge. Several times the wheel would grab the sanding block and whip it out of my hands......

I'm don't know who to blame for this, they say in the instructions to use the Lacquer thinner to clean the tires too, but I'm of the opinion that the Lacquer thinner is what made my tires go all sponge like........... What woud you guys do........ :dunno:

Boy I feel Stu-pid tonight :bang:

Oh well, time for bed :(
 
Well they have been removed, and pitched into the corner bin.

They say the tires are 20% smaller than the wheels, and they were new, but now, tugged off the wheels they are bigger than the wheels :bang:

Back to the 1/4" wide strip of tape on the center of the wheel and the urethane tires :doh: :(
 
Sheesh, that's UGLY!

Are those the ones I recently forwarded to you Stu? Can you send the seller these pics and ask..."what the hey"!

I was thinking of getting some for my saw, but now.....
 
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geez, I hate it when that kind of thing happens. You have my entire sympathies.

My band saw's still broken... the part isn't in stock. I'm using it anyway, but it makes me mad each time I use it...

Thanks,

Bill
 
That stinks Stu!:( It looks like the adhesive attacked it - I don't think wiping it with lacquer thinner would have softened the entire tire. Maybe the surface, but not all of the way through. But having the adhesive in contact over time could soften the tire. Either way it sucks - to put it bluntly. The adhesive that recommended to me was a yellow almost contact cement like, FWIW.

My sympathies,
Wes
 
Stu, I don't have a "definite" answer to your problem, but the adhesive shown in your pic looks like the same kind of adhesive that is used to install windshields in cars. If so, it is basically a liquid rubber, and when dry acts and feels like regular rubber. When we had windshields installed in vehicles (in the car business) they asked us to keep ANYTHING liquid off of it for 24 hrs, and if there was any excess that needed to be trimmed or cleaned off after that time period, we used a razor blade to trim it off. A lot of rubber products do not like Laquer thinner and will soften and swell after contact with Laq Thn, but if you "Must" clean rubber with laquer thinner to get wax or oils off, the rag should only be damp and make a FAST pass over the rubber with it, never let the liquid get on the rubber.

My suggestions, (if you try to do it again), are as follows; Install the tire on the wheel, then use electrical tape and stretch it around the wheel so it laps over just enough to cover the outer faces AND the thin edges of the wheel, then slip your rod in place between the tire and wheel. Now, punch a small hole in the SIDE of the applicator tip, (instead of the end) and then squeeze a small bead onto the "center" of the wheel under the tire. Don't worry about trying to get it on the tire, because as you work your way around the wheel, the tire will press down on the adhesive bead and spread it across the wheel AND the tire. DO NOT clean anything until it has completely dried up and SET, except for excess adhesive on the tire and then only use a dry cloth, (you will remove any other when you sand it to crown the tire). After it has cured, you can then take a razor blade and make a slit between the tire and wheel's rim and this will let you peel off the electrical tape and any adhesive that has squeezed out on top of it, and it will give you a nice clean edge and finish. Try to work around the wheel as quickly as possible so the adhesive doesn't have time to "Skim" over or be disturbed after the contact of wheel and tire is made.

Good Luck, and hope this helps.

(I know you had to be MIGHTY frustrated when that happened).:doh::mad:
 
I never glue rubber tires on, especially if the wheels have the lips, which those do.

I would certainly agree with you, Steve. If the new tires are the proper size, they should be more than tight enough to hold them in place and work properly. The only way I would ever use adhesive is if I had an old set that had "Loosened up", and couldn't get new ones for a while. (Besides, I'm not as energetic in my old age, and getting kinda lazy in that respect and wouldn't want the hassle of getting them off again later and cleaning up all that old adhesive).:D :D
 
Well a quick search on the web yielded this data.............

Subcategory: Adhesive; Thermoset
Key Words: 3M Adhesives Division
Material Notes:
[SIZE=-1]An adhesive with versatile substrate and application capabilities for a wide range of industrial product assembly applications.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Brushable paste consistency with low soak-in on porous surfaces. Can bond EPDM rubber.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The solids weight is approximately 36%. The flash point is -14°F/-26°C. The color is black, the consistency is thin liquid, and the application method is brush trowel. The bond range holds up to 15 minutes. Peel strength is 28 PIW at 75°F (24°C); canvas to cold rolled steel at 2 inches/minute separation rate.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Information provided by 3M Adhesives Division.[/SIZE]

Don't say nothing about Lacquer Thinner :dunno:

I guess I'll be contacting Carter now, I wonder if they will respond to e-mails?

Yes Greg, those where the same tires and glue you shipped me (thanks again for the help!).

Lesson learned, I should have gotten two sets of tires, and I should have tired them without the glue.

Man this sucks, the Phoenix is laid up again, for at least a couple of weeks, not a good day. :(
 
Stu

I totally feel for ya. That is a mess. Nice jig you set up though for spinning the wheels. I don't use rubber tires so I can't say. But with my urethane ones I used glue to set them.
 
Hi Stu.

I've never had bandsaw until recently, and so far not needed to change the rubber, so I'm afraid I can't tell you anything that has not been said.

My simpathies are with you, it is terribly frustrating when things go wrong and we are sure we have done all what we have been told to do:( .

Take it on the positive side, It won't happen to you again, and by sharing it, it won't happen to those who have read your post.
 
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