Peeking over the abyss

Honest opinion, the motor speed does not go slow enough, just like most of the Grizzly lathes.

400RPM is FAST on a lot of stuff, in particular, sanding, for me, I sand at about 200 RPM, I find I get a much smoother surface, sandpaper lasts a LOT longer, and you have very little glazing over from too high a speed.

Otherwise, I think it is a good lathe, but for me, the 400 rpm minimum would be a deal breaker.

You are thinking about it Jay, so trust me, all hope is now lost!! :D :wave:
 
I noticed that 400 rpm low speed too. But, it is a small lathe, good for small stuff. Depending on what you want to do, it could be a good spindle or pen lathe. If you try 10" to 12" bowls on that, you will be dissapointed. 400 spinnies is dangerous with unbalanced stuff. What is the price? You might be better off with the very popular Jet Mini. Or just keep shopping for bigger machine with low(er) low speeds.
 
I see if for sale in your neck of the woods.........
g_25200.jpg


Utter Guys <-link

......... for $529 US

For me, the "portable" lathe, that you would never outgrow, IMHO is the Vicmarc VL100, the "Pro" package...........

vl100_l.jpg


OK the VL100 is a fair bit more money, but, I think it is of real value.

Craft Supplies have it for $749, that is $220 more, but, over the life of a lathe, not a large difference. Also, if you where to get hooked :rolleyes: and you did decide to sell it and buy something bigger, you would certainly get a lot more for the VL-100 that you would for the General.

The VL-100 is a LOT more lathe, to me, in everything from the main shaft to the bearings and the motor etc, is is a lot more machine for that $220.

I've seen them in person, and turned on one, and they are VERY well built machines.

Cheers!
 
I've read good things about that General lathe, Jay. I respectfully disagree with Stu on the speed issue. (Heck, the Jet mini only goes down to 500 rpm, and you don't hear a lot of folks complaining about that.) Unless you're regularly turning 11 1/2" bowls from square blocks of wood (instead of pre-rounded blanks), I doubt the 400 rpm lower limit will be a problem. (I sand at a faster speed than that, too.)

This General does have a few more features and a bit more horsepower than the Jet mini, but I'm not sure if those features are worth the extra $200 or so that it costs. In contrast to Stu, I'd suggest considering getting something a little less expensive than the General (such as the Jet), and use the saved money on the other turning necessities.

Oh, and abandon all hope. Looks like you're getting sucked in. :D
 
Nice to get some respect, even if it is in disagreement :D :rofl:

Thing is, I'd rather spend the money up front on a good lathe, and as I learn and improve my skills, spend money in bits on the better tools, just my way of doing things.

I have not seen the General, not for sale here, my concern is that on a lot of the "Price Point" lathes, it's the little things that suck the things you may not notice up front, stuff like the handles to tighten the banjo to the ways, or the handle to tighten the tool rest in the banjo, on some of the smaller lathes I've seen, these parts are not up to snuff, they are difficult to tighten and such. These are the things that you will have hands on many many times each time to stand there turning. Like having a good computer, but a mouse that sticks, or a keyboard that has a few sticky keys, annoying as can be.

With the VL100, you will not ever have to worry about that stuff, it is a top drawer machine.

I'm not saying the General is NOT good, I'm just saying that I'd look at those things.

About the speed thing, I don't know how easily your lathe changes speeds, but when you can do it on the fly, or at the touch of a button it is something you use a lot more.

I find the use I get out of the sanding pads is double or triple when I sand at 200 rpm, compared to 400 rpm, I've tried both, and the slow stead speed does not build up heat and the sanding is smoother, for me, YMMV :wave:

Certainly Jay can get into the whole spinny thing on the cheap, I did, the old tube bed C-man lathes are out there for less than $50, but, I do not think that is the way to go. I'd at least get a Jet, or one of it's clones, but, to me, for just $220 more, the VL100 sure seems to be a LOT more lathe than the Chiawanese General lathe, one other point is that the VL100 has been on the market for a while, the General is a fairly new lathe, I don't like buying the first run of most anything, I'd rather not be the one to work out the bugs.

Anyway you slice it, the slope is slippery Jay, enjoy the slide down it!! :D
 
I don't deny that the Vicmark is a great lathe, but I don't think it's as prudent of a choice for a first lathe as the Jet mini or its brethren is. At that price point, the Vicmark seems more geared towards a serious turner who needs a small, semi-portable lathe. I don't see it as an entry-level tool unless money is no object. I guess my point is, if Jay buys a Jet mini, that's likely to be the last mini lathe he ever needs to buy. Like most folks who get a mini, he will potentially want a bigger lathe down the road. If he buys the Vicmark, he's still likely to want want a bigger lathe, but he's $400 to $500 poorer. The General is somewhere in the middle of all that. It's got a bit more power and capacity than the Jet, but then again it's about $200 more, and Jay is still likely to want a bigger lathe later.

If someone wanted to spend $750 on their first lathe, I'd recommend saving a bit more and skipping the mini lathe route altogether.

And to beat the sanding horse a bit more, both of my lathes adjust speed easily, and my mini goes down to zero rpm. I still find that about 500 rpm is my preference on pieces up to about 12" in diameter. More and more though, I don't sand much at all with the lathe turning (except when I pull out the 80 grit gouge). Instead, I use the 2" ROS with the lathe turned off. In the end though, we both get good results, so no worries about getting there via a different route. ;)
 
Jay,

You haven't said what you want to use the lathe *for*? Do you want to turn pens? Bowls? Furniture parts? And it's even cool to say "I don't know yet, I just have a hankering. It sounds like fun..."

That last was my answer. So I went out and got the cheapest big lathe I could find. Now, it's not very precise. And it's bad that the low speed is so high. But I'm learning a ton. If I ever get another lathe (and that's a huge if, given my budget), I'm going to be one educated lathe buyer. And meanwhile, I get to turn out a bunch of cool big stuff on a lathe that only cost me 400 bucks.

Now, take this with a grain of salt. My "tablesaw" was 450, my bandsaw 425. There are a ton of people who do quality work who wouldn't even look at the tools in my shop, and for good reason. Do I need a better tablesaw? Yes, and I know exactly what I want. Sadly, the one I have is good enough for now, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

So, my best advice? Find the cheapest halfway decent one you can learn on, knowing you'll eventually have to spring for more if you get pulled into the vortex (this is especially good advice since you don't know yet if vortexing is for you... and since you should figure about 150% of lathe cost for additional things... chucks, chisels, you name it, it's an endless loop... ;) or, just bite the bullet from the start. Once you breach the psychological wall of $1,000, there are a bunch of candidates that will keep you happy for a long time... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
Jay, Is a nice new shiny lathe a must for you to start on? Have you considered looking for a second user machine with perhaps the advantage of electronic (3ph) motor control and slower speeds?

IMHO money saved by purchasing a good second user spinney is better spent on good quality tools, chucks etc.

Almost anything will turn a bit of wood for you whilst you hone your skills at tool control, but I would go along with aiming for slower speeds for bowl work as a new starter, makes the experience much less traumatic.
 
bill,
most of the stuff on my website was built using cheap tools! when i started out i worked outta my garage.......and living room.......and kitchen.....get the drift?
jay,
only you can decide the quality/price of the lathe/tools/grinders/accessorys that you start out with.....i`d suggest finding a machine uses standard sized accessorys so that if you take a hankerin` to spinnin` and decide you want to upgrade later you`ll still be able to use the accessorys.
the standard arguement of you get what you pay for applys with all tool purchases made new, are you open for a used lathe? seems as though many folks start on a mini and want to upgrade in a year or so....
keep in mind that the lathe is the cheap part of turning;)
 
Hi guys

Well thanks for all the assistance! The General interested me because it seemed to give me room to "expand" as my skills improve. I like the idea of being able to go "out board" and do bigger stuff. I think that bowls/hollow forms are something I'd like to strive for Bill and Vaughn have set a great example for me. I don't think I want to do spindles, my flatwork is more in the Shaker/contemporary genre but it might be fun to be able to turn some handles. Pens, I don't know, maybe -- seems like a lot of the people here like them.

Talk to me about "BIGGER" lathes. I don't know when (if) I would want to turn something bigger than 16" at this point

LOML and I left Vero this morning for an extended road trip so hopefully I'll run into a few woodworking stores along the way and I"ll be able to look at stuff.

I am not opposed to buying a piece of used equipment, but I'm not a great mechanic so I worry that I would overlook something and then be stuck without recourse. Craig's list is kind of a waste land where I live, so it would be a several hour drive to check things out, and after awhile, that gets old and frustrating.
 
Jay, the General does indeed have pretty big outboard capacity, but due to the short length of the outboard bed extension, it looks like you'd be limited to platters and shallow bowls at that diameter. Also keep in mind that captive hollowing rigs rely on having a decent amount of bed length, so you could only use one on the inboard side. If you're mostly interested in bowls and hollow forms, then perhaps a bigger lathe might be in order. Something with a bit more capacity and horsepower. Something like the Nova 1624 comes to mind. I understand your considerations about used machines, but if you keep your eyes open you might get lucky. That can be a less painful way to get into a bigger machine.

In my case, I knew when I bought my little Wilton mini (new for $100) that I'd be wanting a bigger lathe. A few months later, I happened upon a used Sears 15" lathe locally for about $300. I bought it, also knowing full well that I'd be replacing it, but I figured the $300 was a cheap price for renting some time on a lesser machine until I could get a "real" lathe. In the year since then, I've turned some nice things, and I have no regrets for having bought the lesser machines. (The Sears lathe paid for itself by last Christmas, and the Wilton has been a great buffing station.) Had I waited until I could afford the "real" lathe, I'd still be turning on my little Wilton.

In the meantime, I'll continue saving my lunch money in hopes of buying a big boy lathe.
 
Jay I have the Nova DVR and I love it. VS from 100 up to I think 3000. You can preset speeds so you can jump at the touch of a button. 16" inboard and 29" outboard. I wouldn't trade mine at all. I might add another one that I have been looking at but this one will stay till it gives up or I do. I would also take a look at the Jet 1642. Either the 2 hp 220 V or the 1.5 115 V. Both are excellent. I think you can get the 115 V 1642 for around $1400 now. If I were in your shoes Jay and was looking for the first time I would give these a long look see. By the way Jay I also have a Sears C-Man like Vaughns and a Rikon Midi. Just my $1.298 Jay.
 
Sorry to come in late on this

Jay, I've turned on the non-VS model of this lathe and I like it. It's considerably heavier than my Delta Midi and the Jet Minis and while this lessens its "portability", it has the advantage of better dampening vibration. If and when the time comes for me to buy another small lathe, this one will probably get the nod. Some have mentioned the speed issue and I too wish that it could be a bit slower. Not for sanding like Stu, but b/c I really like the near 0 rpms I get from my Mustard Monster and any truly VS lathe should be so equipped (IMO).
 
Somebody put a fork in Jay....he's done.

I tried to resist too Jay, but it is useless.

Let us know when you get your lathe (whatever brand you choose).
 
Still thinking guys,
The good news is that LOML and I are on a longish roadtrip so I can't be home to take delivery -- so I've got some time to check things out more! We are in Asheville, so there are lots of good craft shops to visit, and the Grove Inn
Gallery for furniture.

I'll keep y'all posted (after all I am in the south now so I've got to learn to talk the talk until I get above the Mason Dixon Line or below the Florida line!)

Jay
 
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