Time to make the leap?

Would you still feel this way once it became a JOB? That's my biggest fear - i don't want it to be work. Loses all the romance when money gets in there.

Edit: oh, and your site shows plenty of skill - whoever you got to make those sure knows plenty to make good cabinets!

Edit 2: It's more business than woodworking, that's another thing that stops me - i don't wanna end up spending 80% of my time doing everything it takes to make it so i have work to do.
 
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Matt, I was where you are 2 years ago. fortunately i used my head and didn't quit the day job right off the bat, cause i didn't have the work to keep me busy at the time.

my best advice, is to think real hard about it. i can't tell you (neither can anyone else) whether it's the right thing to do. people told me everyday for 2 years that i was stupid for not taking the leap.

personally i waited till i knew i could quit the day job and not have to sink a bunch of money into the business. that way if i got slow i wouldn't be having to pay bills for the biz also.

the way i did it, i waited till i absolutely could not handle the amount of work part time anymore. i'll be honest i was working 40 hours a week at the day job then putting in close to 30 on the side doing cabinets. i would wait to see if the countertop people can actually offer and provide that much work.

try it on the side, if you still like it while working all the extra hours chances are you'll really like it full time.

hope that helps...good luck making your decision, i wish you all the best in either path you choose

chris
 
Before you start thinking about quitting your day job, remember that all the economic wizards are saying about the housing market--it's getting worse. That means that all those guys doing cabs for new houses will be looking for other places to do cabs. I've seen this happen twice locally. I remember the last time looking for a trim carpenter and couldn't find one, they had all left the area, and the cabinet shop did two more jobs after mine and quit business.

Be careful and start out PT. If things go well then give it another look.
 
I agree with what has been said, but another factor... if you are going to make money, you have to be fast. And being fast takes away a lot of the fun. That doesn't mean it isn't a good, honorable type of work, but it becomes work, no longer a hobby.

You can no longer wander the shop looking for that perfect scrap that you remember from a few weeks ago. You have to grab a board, cut, and go. Cut the plywood, get the edge finished, and assemble...NOW. It is a different game.

I recommend you stay part time for a while, even if it seems you are leaving money on the table, to be sure you develop the speed and proficiency (keep your quality while you build your speed), you like working that way, and the pipeline of business is stable.
 
sounds like you are thinking it through matt.

just so you know I get 50% up front before any work starts on my kitchens, no way would I buy 4-5 grand worth of materials and then have someone back out. most people around here do that, maybe if they are with a contractor they don't. no one has ever had a problem fronting me the money.

one thing to think about. if you are in business for yourself, you have to be able to be honest with people about your lead times. i have learned quick to add time to what you think it will take to finish.

good luck, hope you enjoy the extra woodworking

chris
 
chris is dead on, if you know something will take you a week to build tell the customer 2 weeks.....much better to deliver early than late.
 
Matt, everything in these posts seems to be very good info. One thing I would bring up is BENEFITS. I'm guessing that working for the school district you're getting some kind of benefits. Medical, dental etc. Those disappear when you work for yourself.

Medical insurance is not cheap and anyone going into business for themselves needs to factor in the costs of such insurance and add those costs just as one would with the other materials to do the job.

It also becomes rather hard to schedule some time off [vacation] and we all need a break from time to time.

My intention is not to be negative, only to point out a few facts that I didn't see mentioned, that in my mind are very important.

Karl
 
.............I'm a bit surprised at the comment you made about scheduling time off. Could be that I'm a bit naive, but I had figured that it would be easier to schedule time off............

yeah, you would think it would be easy, but it is not, there is always one more job to do, one more favor to finish up, one more rush job for a "Good" customer.....Karl is right, getting time off is hard, but at least you only have to work half days when you work for yourself, you can even choose which half........................


....... the FIRST twelve hours or the LAST........ :rofl:
 
Karl had the points that I was thinking of while reading, and you have already answered those with good information. Shows you are thinking this through clearly and objectively. I think you are right in going into this slowly. See if the counter top people can send some bathroom jobs your way until you get your feet wet. (Bad choice of words??:rolleyes:) It will allow you to see how you feel about deadlines while being a smaller project. Then you can decide when and if you want to tackle more complex jobs like a kitchen. And since I don't remember what you have in the way of equipment, it will also allow you time to get some heavier duty items that will stand up to commercial use, if your's would need upgrading for this (ie: contractor TS to cabinet TS)
Good luck! Sounds like it could be a wonderful opportunity! Jim.
 
I'm a bit surprised at the comment you made about scheduling time off. Could be that I'm a bit naive, but I had figured that it would be easier to schedule time off.
....
Matt

Good to see that you are thinking it through. There is a big alarm bell and a couple of thoughts.

Alarm bell - one customer (the worktop people) is a big risk. They may well load you up with work but could just as easily stop doing so leaving you high and dry. I would never want to be too reliant on a single source of business. Unless you are ready to go out and find other work as well I would be concerned.

Being in business as a woodworker expresses things in the correct order and priority. The first important thing is the business. That means marketing and finance and pricing and selling and insurance and licences and .... and... and... If you don't get these things right they will come back and bite you. You clearly have sufficient skill with the wood but you are more likely to suffer because you can't get the work than because you can't do the work.

Pricing is vital. If you work too cheap you will always be busy but never make any money. If you work too expensive you will never be busy and never make any money.


As to time off. I work in a seasonal business. I know that it goes quiet in the winter and gets busy in the summer. It has done for the last 6 years. Everytime it goes quiet I assume that it will never get busy again. Anytime you are presented with the opportunity to work you will take it because you will (should) fear that it will be the last work you will ever get and will have to survive the rest of your life off what you earn from it. I certainly do. That makes it real difficult to turn down work in favour of vacation.

A last thought - woodweb has a "business and management" forum here - http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/business.pl. Go back over some of the threads on there from folks in exactly your position.
 
Matt


Anytime you are presented with the opportunity to work you will take it because you will (should) fear that it will be the last work you will ever get and will have to survive the rest of your life off what you earn from it. I certainly do. That makes it real difficult to turn down work in favour of vacation.

Matt, the time off remark is summed up by Ian. I used to own my own business [10 years]. In that time I took one real vacation, a 1 week cruise. The rest of the time it was just long weekends when there was already a holiday, such as the upcoming Labor Day weekend.

I had people [2 and sometimes 3] working for me, but even then it's hard to walk away as it's my livly hood on the line, so to speak. In a one man shop, or even if you were to hire another person, if you don't work there's no money being made. That's what makes it hard to take time off. And you don't get paid vacations.

Karl
 
The cabinet shops in my (and Tod's) area are all busy all the time. I have a friend who is turning his business over to his sons. He became very prosperous with his. Another business in town has thrived for decades despite the fact they only order (not very good quality) stock cabinets and install them. The others are all doing well. If you are in a growth community there could be a lot of work and excellent rewards ahead. Do charge enough, work flow and profits can be controlled using prices like a faucet. OTOH, I have another friend who started in the cabinet business, quite accidentially. He is a masterful craftsman and started simply because people asked him. It grew to be such a pressure situation he shut down and got a 9 to 5 job. And he was making excellent money. Good luck with your decision making. Either way, all the best.
 
I like the idea of starting off slow and small. You can ask for small jobs like islands. There seems to be lots of peeps adding these to there kicthens to add more counter space. One othe thing you have to consider is the quality of your tools you are useing. Upgrading your tools can get really exspansive. Good luck with it and make sure you look hard at every option first.
 
Just got back from the countertop people and had an interesting talk with them. They don't want me to sub for them, but they will give people who want custom work done my number. This I think will avoid the pitfalls of being partners with them. Though they did say if I start getting busy and doing regular work, they will work with me on the countertops if I do the installation. Basically, I'll get their discount rate and then can charge for installation.

There is a cabinet shop in town, but he is so busy he only takes kitchen orders and the lead time is usually over 3 months.

I told them I wanted to start off slow, so for now, no kitchens. I don't have the space right now to do a complete kitchen. So for now they will only send people who want custom vanities.

For now, this is still going to be side work, but if it gets busy, then I'll have to look into the business side and get a tax ID number. Good thing the LOML is also a bookkeeper.

So far, this looks like a win/win situation.


Matt,
I've been following along, and since most of my thoughts and concerns mirrored the other posts I left well enough alone.

Congrats on the new 'venture', and I would heartily recommend the tax id # just in case. It will help in the long run. My partner John and I had one back when we shared a commercial space. I rarely did any sales, he did loads so that was his baileywick.

Good luck with whatever orders and customers come your way. Having seen your work, I predict you'll be very busy in no time flat.
 
A few year before I retired I was real concerned about the company that I was working for going under before my retirement date and was looking into small business opportunities. The one thing that sticks in my brain is one statement at the end of a book about owning your own business. The very last sentence said: "The best thing about owning your own business is that you can work any eighteen hours of the day that you want to". :eek:

I don't mean for this to be all negative. My dad owned his own business for most of his working life. He worked hard but loved it. He was his own boss and that meant everything to him. We figured out one time that he could sell all of his assets and make just as much off interest as he could working but he would not hear of it. That says a lot I guess.:)
 
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For now, this is still going to be side work, but if it gets busy, then I'll have to look into the business side and get a tax ID number. Good thing the LOML is also a bookkeeper. ...

If by Tax ID you mean sales tax ID, do it (quick). Here in Texas, it is easy to get, the bookkeeping isn't bad, and the penalty if you are caught without it are ugly - pay the sales tax on all the sales you made, plus interest, plus fines, and the customers aren't going to feel sorry and give you the money. Also, here in Texas, once you collect tax, the material you buy to go into something you will sell are tax-exempt.

If by Tax ID you mean a federal Tax ID to identify a business entity, see your lawyer, but I did not go down that path. The business expenses and income can go on your Schedule C of your personal income tax. Creating a separate business entity adds a whole layer of taxes and accounting. No need to rush to take that step IMHO (but I am not a lawyer).
 
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