Pricing your work

Robert Koster

Member
Messages
5
Location
Grand Rapids MI
How does everyone come up with pricing for thier work whether it be pens or bowls or whatever? Vaughn suggested I ask this question here, as I sent him a private message asking him the same thing, as to how he prices his pen at craft shows.

Thanks
Robert Koster
 
That's the toughest question there is. The simple answer is "whatever the market will bare".

IMHO, a lot depends on where you are selling them. I sold a lot of pens around the office when I first got started. In the DFW mid-cities a Plain Jane slimline ball-point would easily sell for $25. Rollerball/fountain pens (made from exotics) went for $40 and up.

If I were selling at an office in a larger urban area (such as downtown Dallas) I probably would have bumped everything up $5 to $10 at least.

On the other hand, if you are selling from a high-traffic gallery or boutique you could probably get away with starting at $40 or $50. Might not sell as many though. Frankly, I'd rather sell 200 pens at $25 than 100 at $30.

Just my $.02.
 
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Hi Robert!

I think that Neal has nailed it, whatever the market will bear, works fine, the problem is figuring that out :huh: :dunno:

I suggest starting a bit low and seeing how it goes.

Cheers!
 
I don't know Stu...

I figure it is always easier to lower a price than to raise it once it's given.
I've heard a lot of sellers echo Ron's advice. Better to start high and have a sale than to raise your prices. I've also seen suggestions to not lower prices in the middle of a show, but I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the problems that can cause. (I'd suspect it could cause some earlier customers who'd paid higher prices to be upset.)

Robert, on bowls, I've read of some folks who price by the inch (in diameter), and add or subtract from that number based on the uniqueness of the wood. Here again, your market will dictate the price, but I've seen some guys who shoot for $5 per inch, and others who go for $10. I'm thinking of taking a similar approach with my bowls and hollow forms, but still haven't nailed down what the multiplier(s) should be. (Hollow forms would be more per inch than bowls.) I have about 4 weekends from now to figure it out, since that's when my first show will be. ;)
 
I have a friend who is an accomplished turner and has sold bowls for many years. He prices his work (bowls) by measuring the diameter and multiplying that by the height. For example a bowl that is 16" in diameter and 4" high would be priced at approximately $64. He also makes turned lamps (mesquite) that he gets $10 per inch of height. The lamps do not include shades.

As I said, he is an accomplished turner and most of what he turns is mesquite. I judge my work to be maybe 3/4 as good as his--if that.
 
I agree with Ron start high and lower your price. It is a whole lot easier to lower than to raise. Vaughn hit another point. Do not lower your prices the last day of the sale even if you don't sell a thing. People will figure you out and won't even look at your booth or items till the last day knowing you will lower your price. I have did pretty well selling my bowls for $5 per inch of diameter. Vase's I sell for $10 per inch of height. Again this depends on the wood. If it is rare or expensive wood like Amboyna or Coolibah vases, those will get pretty high up to maybe $400. Slimline pens for $20, Euro's for $35, El Grande's and other high end pens $55 up. Birdhouse ornaments I get $25 to $35 depending on wood. I just sold two sets of El Grande fountain pen and pencils for $125 per set. I have found what you can charge is what your local market will bear. These work pretty good for me here in a farming community.
 
Hello Robert,

I do not have a size formula for pricing. I know tha Richard Raffin was the first one I heard of that did this. But he can turn a bowl in the time it takes me to decide which chuck to use. :)

There is so much more to consider. It depends on the wood you use, it depends on the shape you choose, it depends on the skills you have. And it depends on your market.

I judge every piece when it is finished. It it is one of my best efforts and I feel bad about letting it go... I price it higher. I was once told by a very good turner to price my work by this method. I have always followed this rule. It has worked so far.

But I know one thing, I would never sell a 16" x 4" bowl for $64.00. But that is just me. :) I would burn a bowl before I sold it that cheap.:)

Best wishes,
Dave
 
Thanks for answering my question, and making me feel at home here on this forum. I think I will enjoy this for many years to come. Again thanks for the advice.

Robert Koster
 
My advice to start out lower is for several reasons, first, I do not have any idea what level Robert is at, are these the first dozen or so pens he has turned or is he in the hundreds now? :dunno:

Does he sell straight to the customer, or through a gallery?

When you first get started, I think it is better to price your pens to sell, so you can justify keeping at it :rolleyes:, in fact, the first two dozen or so pens I made, I gave away, to family and friends.

I think that starting out with the basic slimline or Euro is good, use common woods, nothing too exotic, then, as you build up skill, and some customer base, you can move to the higher end pens, even moving within a style, say from the standard Euro to the Titanium Euro, and an exotic wood, on these you can certainly up your price, without problem. I do not know if any of you could be selling your 10th or 11th pen for $150, I guess there are some out there than can, but I figure most went through a learning process, which would be step by step. I think we could all agree that a basic slimline made from ordinary Maple, is not going to sell for as much as a titanium slimline made from some exotic burl.

I was also not talking about selling at a show, at a show, I agree, I'd start at a fair price, and keep it there, I'd certainly not drop my prices at the end of the show, because if people come to know this, they might just wait to the end of the show to buy something, at the cheaper rate.

I also understand established pros, or semi pros not enjoying the fact that someone new comes along and sells the same pen, maybe not as well done, for 1/4 of the price the pro asks, as the average buyer may not be able to spot the very well made pen, for just something that is OK.

Still, if you can get $100 for a basic slimline pen in ordinary Maple, go for it! :D :wave:
 
Robert, this is a tough one, as Neal has already mentioned. There are a few things that have not been mentioned that you need to factor into your pricing, especially if you are harvesting your own wood. If you are buying your wood, then you already have the cost to acquire it. But if you are going out to "hunt for it", then things get a little harder to quantify.

I harvest almost all of the wood I use. Sometimes it is easier, sometimes it is harder. But, I need to consider my time in obtaining that wood and getting it home, as well as the cost to buy and maintain things like my truck, saws, and other handling equipment. Other handling equipment means things like my 16' flatbed trailer, my Harbor Freight lift gate, etc. Free wood is not always cheap! :D

And even while most of the wood I get I get for what amounts to sweat equity, I need to think about keeping my wood finders happy, so I need to factor in the occasional gift back to the tree people who think kindly of me when they find burls or unusual wood. I recently obtained an English white oak burl that cost a little more than usual, not for me, but for my tree guy. He ended up burying his saw in the ground to get to the burl, and it took him time to fix the chain. He did not pass that on to me, but you can believe he is going to get a "bonus" piece from me because of it!

I also need to factor in what it might cost me if I actually had to buy this stuff. And that makes things even tougher sometimes, but it needs to be done. I can get a burl dropped off in my field (like I did this past Tuesday), but if I had to buy one of a similar size, it would cost quite a bit of money. I have a good supply of this stuff right now, but that is not a guaranteed source, and the day may come when I have to buy it. I can't jump my prices to reflect that change all at once. And, on rare occasions, I do buy wood, and I try to keep the prices of finished pieces from that stuff in line with the stuff I find alongside the road.

The one big paradox in all this is time. Ironically, the better you get at this stuff, the faster you can go, but the more you can charge for any given piece. Then someone wants to know how long it took you to make it. Answers to this question need to be contextually sensitive. If I am discussing a technical point with other turners, I try to be as specific as possible. If I am discussing it with a customer who I can tell is trying to use the time factor as a gauge of how much the piece is really worth, then I need to be a little more vague. For those people I talk about how much effort and work goes into getting the log home, processed, how much waste can happen, and then I go into a little bit about how much equipment is involved, as well as how long it took me to develop the skill to even dare to tackle this particular piece of wood.

All of this is true, just dressed up a little for consumption by the proper crowd. But if I am telling someone they should buy a bowl from me for $200 and it only took me an hour to turn it, they are going to walk away in disgust, no matter how much they liked it. And it does not matter how much other stuff went into getting that bowl finished, they are going to hear "one hour".

Then there are the people who say you should never reduce a price or bargain with a customer. I will not haggle with people, and there are times I will send someone packing if I don't like them or their manner, but I also have enough margin built into my prices that if someone is wavering, I will make them a deal. Sometimes someone cannot make up their mind as to which piece they should buy. Often they want two pieces, but will walk away with none if they cannot resolve the problem on their own. I have been known to offer a token discount if they take both, or sometimes three or four! Since most of my sales are direct, this discount never amounts to any more than it would cost me to have a gallery or gift shop represent my work, but at the same time I make a sale and the customer goes home happy. But the people who show up to haggle like it is a flea market go away empty handed or at full retail.

Check out what others are getting (not asking) for their work, and see how yours compares to theirs for quality of wood, finish, etc. It is not always easy to get prices, but if you see someone moving a lot of stuff, that is an indication that their prices are at least acceptable to that person. They might be low, but that is their problem. But if you see heavy bottomed oak bowls sitting for months because they are $500 each, then you know someone has an unrealistic view of his own work. (I saw this in one gift shop. I had burl bowls priced the same or below a guy who was selling poorly done red oak bowls. And they wondered why his stuff was not moving! Mine was not the stuff out of line either.)

Sometimes your own personality is a factor. There are people who can make beautiful stuff, but should not be let out in public. They do not sell as well as someone of lesser skill but with greater people skills. We are selling luxury items here, and people need to know how or why owning your piece of wood is going to improve their own life. There is a whole host of reasons for this, and each person is different. Learning how to interact with people on this level is going to get you higher prices. If you can connect with people, tell them a story about the wood, or show them why they are going to be a hero for bringing home a piece of yours, it is going to put money in your pocket.

As others have mentioned, location is important, and there are a host of other variables. But we are not like contractors who can give a price per square foot as a gauge for their work, and then hope to make money. Charging for your work is as much of an art as the work itself. Good luck with it!
 
When you first get started, I think it is better to price your pens to sell, so you can justify keeping at it :rolleyes:, in fact, the first two dozen or so pens I made, I gave away, to family and friends.


I think it would be better to just give away your first "rough" attempts than try to sell them.

Selling turnings that are "not market ready" can hurt you down the road.
 
I think it would be better to just give away your first "rough" attempts than try to sell them.

Selling turnings that are "not market ready" can hurt you down the road.

yes, that is what I said, I gave away my first 24 or so pens, but that time, I had the technique down to the point I could put out nice pens consistently.

Cheers!
 
The best answer is to say, that is a tough question. Different items, different markets and different quality of work all come into play. My woodturning club has one member who does quite nice work, specializing in natural edge small bowls. Locally he prices at $10.00 to $30.00 and doesn't sell very many. Another member turns bowls from manzanita root and sells in art galleries at larger cities. He gets very big bucks for his. It often isn't the work as much as the location, meaning market. Go figger why some 'artist' can let his cat, with paint on it's paws run across a canvas and sells the 'art' for $10,000.00.
When I started selling duck and game calls, I couldn't get $35.00 for them. Then, on the advice of a collector, I started having my signature laser engraved on them and they sell readily for $45.00. As a call maker gets better known, he can raise prices accordingly. Collectors will pay almost anything if the maker is considered famous.
I couldn't get $5.00 locally for my pens. Same pens in an art gallery in a bigger city bring $90.00 to $240.00 depending on style.
I don't dicker on prices. But, I do have a generous 'family and friends' discount. Those sales generally result in more orders from folks who either just see the pens or receive as gifts.
This has probably been no help at all. :( You have to find your market and level for yourself.
 
I just got my new copy of American Woodturner today and there's a story about how they set a new record for their fundraiser auction. Two amazing pieces sold for $30,000 and $20,000. So I guess that pretty much tells you that the sky is the limit if your work is worthy and the buyers are feeling generous. But very few of us will ever reach the plateau of making turning our livelyhood. Mostly we'll be lucky if we even come close to covering the cost of our addiction. So I'd say that you just test the water when you put your work out for sale. If it all sells you'll know you probably could price it a little higher next time. If it doesn't sell, box it up and try again until it does.
 
Like Curt said if it doesn't sell box it up, adjust your price and go to the next one. What amazes me is I went to a craft fair and sold one bowl. I was ready to say heck with it but had already paid for booth space at another one. It was held 72 miles from the first one. I sold 7 bowls, 2 cheese platters, 7 lidded boxes, 9 pens and 4 pen and pencil sets. Never changed the price at all and they were 2 weeks apart. So go figure. I can't explain it. So in October I am going to try both again. If the first one works like last year I probably won't go back and the second one works, I probably will frequent that one.
 
Robert,

I'm no expert on this subject, but I do know about things like this in other fields. I've often held that most people sell themselves short. And I'd like to emphasize a point Bill Grumbine made:

"Then someone wants to know how long it took you to make it. Answers to this question need to be contextually sensitive."

Years ago, a novelist friend had just published a book, and a journalist was doing an interview with her. The journalist asked "how long did it take you to write?" And Paula said "My Whole (durned) Life!" ;)

And that's my argument: with turning, as with any art, there's a different scale. All your experiences, all your failures and catches, and a thousand small successes, and hundreds of small technical points you've learned along the way, all of these, and more (your eye, your state of mind) go into each piece. That's what the buyer needs understand, and if he (or, more likely, she) does, if she can hear and then re-tell the true story of the piece, it's worth a lot.

Unless, of course, you and/or she think of it as just a bowl. If that's the case, she can buy one for 8 dollars at walmart, and what's the point? ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
I think it would be better to just give away your first "rough" attempts than try to sell them.

Selling turnings that are "not market ready" can hurt you down the road.
Giving away turnings that are "not market ready" can hurt you down the road too:
remember that someone may base his entire opinion of your work on that one piece because it's the only one they will ever see.

Keep it, burn it, whatever...but if it's going out in public, it should be "market ready" because you have no control over who will see it.
 
And I'd like to emphasize a point Bill Grumbine made:

"Then someone wants to know how long it took you to make it. Answers to this question need to be contextually sensitive."

This poem has gone around the woodturning circles for a while. But I've always thought it would be a good idea to print this up, frame it, and have it sitting with your display of work......

How Long Does It Take To Turn One of Those?

Do you mean

not plant the tree, but find the wood,

just 'see' the piece, (as if I could)?

to find a highly figured burl,

a crotch, an eye, or pearly curl?

And once I spy it, perhaps buy it,

inventory, store, and dry it?

Then saw or cut it, possibly I kiln it'

glue, imbue with fill, or drill it?

You mean, that once I'm satisfied

it's stopped the warps, checks, cracks, once dried?

And mounted on the lathe, to turn it,

(which takes much practice, just to learn it;

and then employ a gouge, or two,

or use a skew, which I don't eschew,

to mold it, shape it (what's your pleasure?)

by all means, I'm sure to measure,

then sand it smooth, please wear your mitts,

from coarse to fine, 10,000 grits,

then braze, or burnish, paint, or polish,

(the goal: enhance, and don't demolish)?

Is that your question, start to end,

how long's that path, its way to wend?

Or do you merely want to know how long it turned?

Ten minutes, or so.

John A. Styer, The Lathe-meister

:bang:
 
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