Tools do not a carpenter make

Robert Farmer

Member
Messages
38
Our house was damaged back in 2005 by Hurricane Rita. We contracted
out all of the necessary repairs- replacing fourteen roof rafters, several pieces
of decking as well as new shingles. Inside we had a lot of new drywall put up.
I decided to handle all of the interior trimwork. Naturally, we decided to re-
model beyond the necessary repairs. I installed seven new colonial style
doors in the house and decided to trim it out the doors and windows with
trim I made from 1x lumber rather than utilizing the trim that came on the
doors when we bought them. My problem is the fact that the door jambs are
not wide enough to span the width of the rough opening and a couple of the
rough openings are actually scissored in that one side of the rough opening
is not in line with the opposite side. I installed the door jambs plumb rather
than following the plane of the wall leaving gaps at the bottom of one side
and top of the opposite side. Some of the gaps are one quarter to three
eighths inches in width. In other cases the sides of the rough opening are in
the same plane but the door jamb doesn't isn't wide enough to span the full
width so I split the difference in putting the jamb in ending up with a small
gap between the jamb and trim on both sides of the door. I've gone to far
now to rip everything out and start all over again so it looks like I am going
to have to use an awful lot of caulk to fill in these gaps. I have a nice
shop filled up with all sorts of good tools and have built several pieces of
furniture for our house that my wife was very pleased with, but intalling the
trim is eating my lunch, hence the title of this thread. Do any of you guys
have the same problem as I do?
 
I am not sure exactly what your are saying. A rough opening for a door should be 1 1/2 to 2 inches over the size of the door. You then plumb and shim the door to work properly. The scissored wall is tougher. You may have to move the base plate of the wall back in line with each other.
Pictures of the problem would be a big help.
 
If I understand correctly, since you didn't mention any, you did not use shims between the rough opening and the door frame. They go at least at each hinge and the lock position, but at least three per side and on the top. If the problem is that the wall is not plum, the only way I know to handle it, is to use spackling compound to level it out to the frame.

Bruce
 
Robert, Are the pre-hung jams the kind where a finished fram slides intop a groove in the part where the door is hinhged? If so, then you can plumb the hinged side and jostle the sliding side to meet the wall (so one side is A-ok but the other roomhas a bit of gap. 1/4" is not a great deal and the molding will skew and lay down a good deal of that space and caulking the rest. As for the rough opening being 1.5 to 2" is a bit of exageration. 3/4" to 1" at best is the norm. in width anbd enough to tilt and lift is for the height.

Plumb the door at the hinge side as it will swing about if you do not. too far out will cause it to drag the floor if it leans in. etc. Cause it to swing open on its own, or slam shut on its own if it is out of plumb.

Adjusting setted or racked walls to new fixtures is difficult in deed but
 
I decided to handle all of the interior trimwork. Naturally, we decided to re-
model beyond the necessary repairs. I installed seven new colonial style
doors in the house and decided to trim it out the doors and windows with
trim I made from 1x lumber rather than utilizing the trim that came on the
doors when we bought them. My problem is the fact that the door jambs are
not wide enough to span the width of the rough opening and a couple of the
rough openings are actually scissored in that one side of the rough opening
is not in line with the opposite side. I installed the door jambs plumb rather
than following the plane of the wall leaving gaps at the bottom of one side
and top of the opposite side. Some of the gaps are one quarter to three
eighths inches in width. In other cases the sides of the rough opening are in
the same plane but the door jamb doesn't isn't wide enough to span the full
width so I split the difference in putting the jamb in ending up with a small
gap between the jamb and trim on both sides of the door. I've gone to far
now to rip everything out and start all over again so it looks like I am going
to have to use an awful lot of caulk to fill in these gaps. I have a nice
shop filled up with all sorts of good tools and have built several pieces of
furniture for our house that my wife was very pleased with, but intalling the
trim is eating my lunch, hence the title of this thread. Do any of you guys
have the same problem as I do?
Hi Robert, :wave:
The fact that you are trying your best to do this and also creating your own trim to work is exciting too. Can you share with us some photos of your situation and the trim you made. With this information we can best offer suggestions that may work out better than the plan you have now. We are here to share ideas and we will all get into places were fresh ideas may be the best solution. Don't give up hope, you have come this far, now let us see if we can help you.:)
Shaz
 
Brother I am laughing with you, not at you. I know the situation you are in and I feel for you. Please don't beat yourself up over this...I am sure you are an accomplished woodworker, just as I am, but trim and doors can kick you in the hiney sometimes.

Over on the Wood Forum a few months ago a guy was asking about building a front door. He got a quote of 2 grand for a new custom made mahogany door. He was asking if he should make his own.

I was a stout voice in saying no way. The reasons are simple, to build a door is tough business. It must swing, move, get slammed shut, pounded on and still keep out wind and rain even through ten thousand cycles of opening and closing. It often better to let someone else who knows what they are doing make doors. I tried it once and was not happy with the result. To be honest with you, getting the trim to seal and fit tight against an already built door is trying enough.

About the only help I can offer you is to take you back to physics class. Remember the phrase "Three points in space make a plane?" Well that is what you have to do. No matter how hard, the two hinges and the latch must be co planer. That will give you a door that shuts and latches. The rest of the area around the door must be shimmed or filled in so the trim can be attached and seal and cover things up.

By the way, you came to the right place. With a few pictures, a willingness to try new things, and some thought and help from everyone, you'll get the door to look great.
 
Part of what a carpenter is able to do is make things fit, and I know for myself the first time I had to understand that corners are not always 90 degrees, or that walls do not form right angles exactly to the floor, you realize you must compensate as a carpenter.

Sure, tools do not a carpenter make, but knowledge of how to do something does. You just can't replace experience in the case of a carpenter.:doh:With that said, the best carpenters know how to work though the worst of problems.
 
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Don't feel bad. I know an extremely accomplished furniture maker that makes exquisite studio pieces that are perfect in every detail. He recently took a commission to build an entrance door on the condition that the client would get someone with experience to install it. A wise man indeed.
 
Let me explain how I went about hanging the doors. I remove all of the trim,
hinges, and even the doorstop so that I am left with just the door frame itself. I then measure the width of the rough opening and try to center the
frame in the rough opening. I shim at each hinge location first and then check with a six foot box beam level to make sure that the hinge jamb will be
plumb when I attach it to the shims. I then place the hinges back on and
hang the door. I then go to the latch side and shim top, center, and bottom
to get an even reveal all the way around. Then I re-install the strike plate
and close the door. I take a thin aluminum ruler and use it as a spacer when
putting the door stop back on. This procedure for hanging a door was taken
from an issue of Fine Homebuilding back about 1995 I think. I kept the issue
but am not looking at it right now so am guessing as to what year it was.
The trim carpenter who wrote the article was Jim Britton. As I stated in my
first post, in just about every case with all seven doors, the width of the dry
wall plus the trimmer stud was slightly wider than the jam width. I suppose I
could have placed the jambs flush with one side of the opening but that
would have left a wider gap between the jamb and trim on the opposite
side to deal with. It surely would have necessitated jamb extensions. In
hindsight that is what I should have done but was being pushed along by
an impatient wife. After all, it's almost two years after the hurricane. As
to the situation whereby the rough opening is scissored, I could have made
by own jambs wide enough to scribe to each side but I thought I could work
around the problem without going to that much trouble. Unfortunately, I am
not paid to think. I would post some pictures but I am afraid that if ya'll
saw them, I would be unceremoniously kicked out of family woodworking
and barred from ever joining again!
 
I forgot to mention in my previous post that my trim is 1x lumber so it is not
nearly as flexible as the trim that comes on the factory door. I did try ripping
some kerfs on the backside in the hopes that that would give the trim some
flex but the idea didn't work. I would go any deeper than about a half inch
for fear that the trim might split on the face side.
 
I am not a founding member of this forum, but I hardly think posting pictures of your problem would get you tossed off the board.

Rather, it will help others work through the same kind of problems.

So, recant, my friend. And get the camera out!
 
It sounds like your jamb stock is thinner than you walls. You might try crushing the drywall as someone suggested earlier, or extend the jamb.
If the jamb is too narrow you may have to take them back.

I have only been visiting here for a short time, but I feel confident that no one would want to banish you for this. It is a very hospitable place!
 
I would post some pictures but I am afraid that if ya'll
saw them, I would be unceremoniously kicked out of family woodworking
and barred from ever joining again!
.
Hi Robert, :wave:
We are trying to make this forum a first class place. That doesn't mean that everybody is a first class carpenter. It means as I read the code of conduct that folks here act in a way respectful of one another and that we help one another. If it were to get to the point of being banned for what you suggest, I leave with you.:)
That said, let us see some photos of your dilemma that we may be of assistance, or if you are more comfortable, you can email them to me. I trimmed out some houses in my 30 years of doing this carpenter work. Anyway you want, let us/me help.
Shaz
 
I understand your problems!

When we moved in the plan was to remodel, completely. Ran into the same problems with crooked rough openings for the doors. Since I made all the jambs and headers from scratch, adjustments for poor carpentry was done for nearly every door. I had NEVER done this type of work before. A friend recommended this book: Trim Carpentry Techniques by Craig Savage. He covers how to overcome the issues your dealing with.
 
Hey Robert!:wave: First off, welcome to Family Woodworking! I can assure you that posting pics is very much encouraged here and, as the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. You have some very accomplished folks here that would be more than willing to help you out. So, post away!
 
Well, I didn't really think I'd get thrown out on my ears but I am disappointed
in myself. They say hindsight is 20/20, and looking back, I can see many things I would have done differently. I learned a lot making all of these mis-
takes. I made up my mind to plow on ahead, although more carefully, with
the rest of the remodeling. If I come across something that I am not sure
how to tackle, I'll come runnin to you guys for advice and guidance. At some
point in the future I'm going to go back and redo every door and make them
fit right. Thanks for the support.
 
Robert, I know where you are coming from my friend. 13 years ago I was 18 years old, I was getting married and needed a house. Obviously I did not have much money, nor much credit...so I did what I had to do. I started building a house for myself.

That was 13 years ago and I was not very good. I made more mistakes than anyone should ever make. Crooked doors, walls, jambs, etc...I even used rough hemlock lumber to make things even more interesting. Now I find myself building a new addition onto my house and its a lot better constructed. Its really gratifying to see how far my carpentry has progressed. Kind of like night and day between the old part of the house and the new part.

I am sure you will be just as good. The problem with carpentry is that unlike a woodworking project, carpentry can be overwhelming. Its not just one door, its the fact that you got 12 doors just like this. Its not 3 feet of countertop by 25 feet of countertop...Trust me I know.

But while it can overwhelm you, just realize that as you get better at it, things start to get easier. Things also go faster which will help with the Mrs. You kind of alluded to that in one of your posts and being rushed certainly does not help things. I heard this a long time ago and I have used it alot with my wife...

Rome was not built in a day dear, and neither will 945 East Thorndike Road.
 
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