Ford or chevy or dodge

Doug Sinjem

Member
Messages
400
Location
La Habra Hts. CA
Some of you might know that my main business is concrete finishing on industrial and commercial projects. Therefore I have many trucks to tote all the equipment around. Currently I have 5-F350 cab and chassis(these carry all the small equipment and walk behind trowels) F550 with a crane for the riding trowels, a Chevy Kodiac 5500 with a crane for the riding trowels, and F450 dumptruck, 1-F350 4 door and 1-F350 4 door for pulling trailers with cranes attached also for carrying riding trowels. All these trucks are diesel plus I have 1 F250 gas truck.

All the 7.3 liter diesels have been good except for the trans which have all had to be replaced. the f 350 4 door is a 6.0 diesel and has had a lot of problems and the newest F350 has the new 6.4 tt diesel has been in the shop for a front engine gasket that has been on national backorder.

I have had a few chevys in the past that didnt seem to cut it with the brakes etc they were the old 454 low an power and hard on gas and ran hot. I did have a 94 dodge that was pretty good but was loud and got sold because of age.

My F350 cab and chassis are getting old with almost 200,000k miles and looking to replace a couple of them. Our truck need to be dependable and it's critical they make it to the jobs. Also are jobs are getting further and further away.

I like the new F350 trucks but the new 6.6 liter diesel looks like its taking off where the 6.0 left off. Oil leaks, high and low idle(to burn off the contaminents) and poor fuel milage. They truck is rated at 13,000 GVW which is great for all the weight we carry. Truck still has 5 speed auto tranny.

I've heard good things about the new Duramax and allison tranny but their cab and chassis is only rated at 11,400 GVW

The dodge has the tried and true inline cummins and I think its called aisen tranny which I know nothing about. Their truck is rated at 12,500


I'm looking for input good or bad on all trucks. Anything helpful to make a good decision for my next buy. These are for my business and need to be dependable.

Doug
 
Doug,
I can only give you anecdotal information - so take it with a grain of salt. My Uncle is a structural steel sub in the Chicago area. All his trucks have been Ford mainly due to the front end design. They routinely get loaded to capacity and with the bad roads and rough job sites, he was spending a lot of down time for front end and suspension rebuilds on other makes. Can't tell you much else, but suspension durability - or lack there of, was always what he complained about.

FWIW,
Wes
 
Yeah, Ford messed up by going away from the 7.3. The new 6.4 shows some promise in the emissions area, but I'm guessing it will take 2 years to get it right. If GM would only go to a fully boxed frame like Ford and Dodge, I bet their GVWs would go up. Jim.
 
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Doug, I don't have personal experience with any of the three Brands that are newer than 2005, so my info may or may not be helpful. I do know that "IF" you can keep the Duromax out of the shop and running, it gets fair fuel consumption, and the Allison tranny seemed to work Very well, but with that said, I have personally seen MANY of the Chevys with that combo traded in for Dodges and Fords because they just couldn't keep them out of the shop.

I love the way the Fords are built, (I have put a LOT of miles on Ford and Dodge Duelly Diesels, pulling a 3 car trailer, hauling trucks for Dealers). We always used manual trannys for towing, and I preferred the Ford at that time with the 7.3 to the Dodge and it's Cummins, but the Cummins got better fuel mileage,and the later Dodge/Cummins combo I liked very well. Of the current models, the cummins will probably out perform the Ford Diesel in power, fuel consumption and reliability.

Here in West Tx, (Heavy Oil Patch use, and some Ranching, Chevy sells a VERY SMALL percentage of Diesel Trucks, compared to Ford and Dodge, (where Ford still is slightly ahead of Dodge, but not by much). The thing that has held Dodge back somewhat is that with the manual trannys, if the person doesn't drive them like a big truck, ie; let the clutch out smoothly and get the vehicle rolling, BEFORE pressing the accelerator, they tend to develop clutch and rear end problems. Ford had some problems for a while with the clutch "Servo", but that may not be a problem anymore.

Sorry I can't be of more help on the current models. For the larger trucks you use, have you maybe considered one of the small Freightliner Delivery type trucks with a small Detroit Diesel?
 
doug,
my advice is offered only based on observation, i drive pre 1960 vehicles:rolleyes:......in this area 90-95% of the folks hauling a load, farmers, job trucks and rv pullers are running dodge for their 1 ton rigs..most opt for a standard tranny outfitted with a ceramic clutch...it`s not uncommon to see trucks pulling fully loaded stock trailers up these ozark hills doing well over the speed limit and not dropping a gear..
dodge is still using the ol` 14 bolt corprate rearend with an 11-1/2" ring gear, 3" brakes and floating axles....a tried-n-true design.

for your larger trucks i have a friend who owns a fairly large lumber yard with several locations and they have gone to international for their fleet (over 20 trucks)
i also understand that for the larger trucks volvo is a major player in the value-vs-dependability market...
 
I don't have any personal experience, but i know what will fly around here. And I can hit both sides of the fence

My sister bought a 07 3500 Dodge in December. It has the smaller 06 engine, for 07 Dodge went to I do believe 6.2 or 6.5 liter engines. She is pulling a 14,000 pound 32 foot fifth wheel.
Va beach to to Erie pa last spring they averaged 12.2
Erie to my house last week they averaged 13.9
They only have around 7000 miles on it. I drove it while she was here and it is quiet. It's nothing like the older ones.

Wifes one cousin runs a fence company, He runs all Chevy.
They routinely load the goose neck with a 4WD John Deere tractor, a large JD skid steer and all the fence supplies. All 4 of his employees are die hard ford fans, all 4 of them have the same opinion. The Chevy will leave the power strokes behind, but the Ford is more comfortable and has better visibility. They also don't like the steering the Chevy. GM steering tends to take a light touch you get a bit less feedback from it.

IT comes down to this
You want the best transmission and the most power you go Chevrolet. The Allison transmission has been around for 85 years building trannys for everything from semis to heavy construction equipment. Chevrolet's current downfall right now is they are still experiencing some injector issues. If the 3500 won't carry enough weigh buy a 4500 or 5500.

You want the most weight capacity in a one ton, well its going to be Ford then.

You want the best mileage along with best ride in my opinion your buying Dodge

Now the smart choice, International 4100 series. you can spec it up 19,500 GVW. Hydraulic brakes and you DO NOT need a cdl to drive it. You now have a truck that was designed from the ground up to work. Sorry but todays pickups are not in my opinion. Your have a truck that has 200,000 on it and your replacing it. A 4100 is just really getting broke in good at 200,000
In fact with proper care it should go 500,000 before it needs any work to amount to anything. I can show you tons of those around with 600,000+ miles and still working every day. you need a work truck not a pickup truck
 
I don't have any personal experience, but i know what will fly around here. And I can hit both sides of the fence

My sister bought a 07 3500 Dodge in December. It has the smaller 06 engine, for 07 Dodge went to I do believe 6.2 or 6.5 liter engines. She is pulling a 14,000 pound 32 foot fifth wheel.
Va beach to to Erie pa last spring they averaged 12.2
Erie to my house last week they averaged 13.9
They only have around 7000 miles on it. I drove it while she was here and it is quiet. It's nothing like the older ones.

Wifes one cousin runs a fence company, He runs all Chevy.
They routinely load the goose neck with a 4WD John Deere tractor, a large JD skid steer and all the fence supplies. All 4 of his employees are die hard ford fans, all 4 of them have the same opinion. The Chevy will leave the power strokes behind, but the Ford is more comfortable and has better visibility. They also don't like the steering the Chevy. GM steering tends to take a light touch you get a bit less feedback from it.

IT comes down to this
You want the best transmission and the most power you go Chevrolet. The Allison transmission has been around for 85 years building trannys for everything from semis to heavy construction equipment. Chevrolet's current downfall right now is they are still experiencing some injector issues. If the 3500 won't carry enough weigh buy a 4500 or 5500.

You want the most weight capacity in a one ton, well its going to be Ford then.

You want the best mileage along with best ride in my opinion your buying Dodge

Now the smart choice, International 4100 series. you can spec it up 19,500 GVW. Hydraulic brakes and you DO NOT need a cdl to drive it. You now have a truck that was designed from the ground up to work. Sorry but todays pickups are not in my opinion. Your have a truck that has 200,000 on it and your replacing it. A 4100 is just really getting broke in good at 200,000
In fact with proper care it should go 500,000 before it needs any work to amount to anything. I can show you tons of those around with 600,000+ miles and still working every day. you need a work truck not a pickup truck

hanks for all the info Robert. One of my competitors actually has an international for hauling around his riding trowles. I took a quik peek at the 4100 series and it looks like the motor is only 230 hp. Not sure if this is enough but will talk to an international dealer.

Doug
 
Doug, not much to add here, as my info on US trucks is 20 years old, but horse power is not what matter much for hauling stuff, foot pounds of torque is what counts :D :wave:
 
I took a quik peek at the 4100 series and it looks like the motor is only 230 hp. Not sure if this is enough but will talk to an international dealer.

I don't know as much about this as Robert or some others, but I do have a 15,000# GVW with a 318 gas motor in it. Not sure what the horsepower is, either spec or acutal (needs a valve job so it's kinda lower hp than it should be). However, with 6.2 axle gears, it'll haul a full load up just about any hill - at 25 mph :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Anyway, a 230 hp diesel sounds like a luxury to me, but I've got a kinda skewed perspective.

Sounds to me like you should get away from heavy pickups. I've got one friend involve with a landscape business - 500,000 miles out of their Nissans, and another who just retired from driving long haul. He'd been driving and maintaining the same Peterbilt since the 70's or 80's (round headlights) - I'll have to ask him how many miles he got out of it. But 200,000 miles should be just getting to the sweet spot.
 
hanks for all the info Robert. One of my competitors actually has an international for hauling around his riding trowles. I took a quik peek at the 4100 series and it looks like the motor is only 230 hp. Not sure if this is enough but will talk to an international dealer.

Doug

Yeah it's only 230 HP but 620 lbs.-ft. torque
IF it's that much of an issue( I have no idea how much weight your hauling) Jump up to the 4300, Spec it under 24,000 GVW and stay with hydraulic brakes, you still won't need a cdl that way.

Now you can spec a DT466 with up to 255 HP @ 660 FT lbs of Torque. There isn't a stock Chevy, Dodge, OR Ford, Ok a duramax MIGHT but it won't stay with it for long.

I would be willing to bet a 4100 or 4300 IH would last you 4 or 5 times as long as an F-550.

Theres always the small freightliners. Just stay away from the Mercedes engines, theres been a lot of trouble getting warranty work out of them.

I wouldn't rule out used. Like I said before A medium duty truck with 200,000 miles on it is just starting to get broke in good. And they can usually be had cheap
 
i see the older 444 cummins rigs for sale cheap around here 400+hp and 1400ftlbs of torque:eek:....
robert`s right about looking for a real work truck, they`ll labor less and last much longer than one of the luxury trucks offered by the big three.
 
i see the older 444 cummins rigs for sale cheap around here 400+hp and 1400ftlbs of torque:eek:....
robert`s right about looking for a real work truck, they`ll labor less and last much longer than one of the luxury trucks offered by the big three.

ARGH ARGH ARGH
Get the right 444, with a little magic I can give you 1000HP+ and probably 2500 ft pound of torque. :thumb:

Most likely the reason those 444 Cummins rigs are so cheap is because that particular engine was one of the most high maintenance engines Cummins made. We picked up six Volvo's with that engine from a Corporation that only transported their own materials, 2 years earlier than normal because of the high cost of maintenance on the engines and they ordered the replacement Volvo's with Detroit Diesels. We had those 444 powered trucks for an unreasonably long time before we finally got them sold, and they were in excellent shape when we got them, but every prospective buyer seemed to be aware of and afraid of the maint. costs on the engines.
 
Some of these trucks you guys are talking about are pretty good sized trucks and a little large for my application. The faltbed needs to be about 12 feet long with side boxes on top of the bed raised up to accommodate walk behind trowels to slide under them. Also some boxes under the bed for extra storage. We have to carry about six troweling machines, shovels, edgers, bull floats, handles, fresnos, weights, gas, concrete vibrators, extra blades...you get the picture...all covered up with a 36x94 flip up lift gate.

In doing research looks like my f 350s are right at the weight limit. I've got it narrowed down to the chevy or dodge in the 4500 series.

Ford has too many issues with the new 6.4 diesel, poor mileage from the new emmisions and the 5 speed auto trans which was the weak link in our trucks.

Both dodge and chevy have good trannies with good warranties and reputable engines.

Also I think the international is a little heavy for what I need. They are rated at about 25,000 gvw. I should be ok with somewhere between 14,000 and 16,000.


Doug
 
Doug,
just a quick thought, If you're going to stick with the pickup chassis/cab, why not go up to a f450 or f550?

Awhile back I took a long hard look at buying a truck and becoming an expedited freight hauler. I looked at getting a full size van vs a medium duty rig. In that application it came down to 'bigger is better'. The long term maintenance and replacement costs were less with the medium duty rigs.

If I had the wherewithal to be looking at trucks as tools for my business, I'd seriously consider a medium duty chassis/cab. Sit down and talk with a truck specialist at a freightliner or intl dealer. I bet they can spec a truck that will comfortably haul what you need and it will outlast the light duty rigs. You've said you're pushing the upper limit of the current rigs, Just as in woodworking tools, you will stress the trucks less by having more capacity, which will result in less wear/tear maintenance issues. There is a Medium Duty market for a reason, and your situation is a prime example.

I'm not a truck specialist, and I did not sleep at a holiday inn express last night, so feel free to discount my thoughts.
 
Doug,
just a quick thought, If you're going to stick with the pickup chassis/cab, why not go up to a f450 or f550?

Awhile back I took a long hard look at buying a truck and becoming an expedited freight hauler. I looked at getting a full size van vs a medium duty rig. In that application it came down to 'bigger is better'. The long term maintenance and replacement costs were less with the medium duty rigs.

If I had the wherewithal to be looking at trucks as tools for my business, I'd seriously consider a medium duty chassis/cab. Sit down and talk with a truck specialist at a freightliner or intl dealer. I bet they can spec a truck that will comfortably haul what you need and it will outlast the light duty rigs. You've said you're pushing the upper limit of the current rigs, Just as in woodworking tools, you will stress the trucks less by having more capacity, which will result in less wear/tear maintenance issues. There is a Medium Duty market for a reason, and your situation is a prime example.

I'm not a truck specialist, and I did not sleep at a holiday inn express last night, so feel free to discount my thoughts.

Ned that is what I stated in my previous post. That all my f 350 cab and chassis are loaded right at the limit. So I am going to step up to a 4500 series truck.

Not a ford though. Like I said I'm not happy with the 6.4 TT that I have now.
I'm thinking if I go to a 4500 series the truck will have some extra carrying capacity so it won't be running on the ragged edge all the time.

Doug
 
Most likely the reason those 444 Cummins rigs are so cheap is because that particular engine was one of the most high maintenance engines Cummins made.

Certain CPL numbers where bad, The wouldn't take the maintenance abuse that the older BC3 would take.

Also I think the international is a little heavy for what I need. They are rated at about 25,000 gvw. I should be ok with somewhere between 14,000 and 16,000.

The 4100 is only 17,800 in a standard configuration. Personally I would rather have a little heavier truck, thats loaded light, then a lighter truck loaded to the max. I drive a tandem dump part time, I can get 15 ton payload legal. but it isn't pretty. I drove a tri axle for a while, Ironically I could still only haul 15 ton legal, it handled it a whole lot better.

Maneuverability? I bet I can put a 4700 IH any where you need to put a 4500 Chevy, Plus theres room to expand a bit if you need to down the road.

That being said, I would buy the Chevy over the Dodge, :D
 
Robert I did a little more research on the International 4100 series and it looks like they are running the same egine as the Ford F series...the 6.4

It's made by navistar, they also make the engine for the ford. My new F 350 has been in the shop for two weeks wating for a front engine gasket that was on national back order.

Are these two motors one in the same? The ford motor gets poor milage due to the new emmision laws, has an eradic idle to burn off the contaminents and has also been known to throw some flames out of the tail pipe. Ford actually had one customer burn their garage down due to this:(

Let me know.


Doug
 
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