Remember them today

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105
Please take time today to remember those innocent people and the many, many heroes that gave all on September 11, 2001. I will NEVER forget exactly where I was and what I was doing when the senseless carnage began that day.

To all that have served, and to those that are serving today, I thank you for my freedom and safety. You have NO idea how much that means to me and my family.

Please, take time out to remember the fallen, and may God Bless America!
 
There is a song and I would copy/paste the lyrics that fits today for me it is called..."Where were you when the world stopped turning", by Alan Jackson. I'd post it except there are a couple of words that might be against the Coc so I'll abstain, but anyone interested can do a search if they have never heard it before.
 
As not much of a television watcher, I didn't even know this had happened until the DJ on my favorite radio station said, very calmly, that a plane had hit WTC and he'd keep us updated. Shortly afterward, my best friend called in hysterics from in front of her television to tell me what was going on. I got to my office, turned on the television, and sat there mesmerized for hours--until I could gather myself together enough to drive home. My boss suspended work for two days until he could determine that relatives in lower Manhattan were safe.

Steve, I don't think those two words you might be referring to would be objectionable in this post, as part of a song lyric. Here it is:

EDIT
The song that Nancy posted has been edited out, it was deemed to be contrary to the CoC that states "No Religion".

Nancy was asked to edit her post, but has refused to do so. According to the rules here at Family Woodworking....

4. If for some reason the original poster is unwilling to edit the post, then with the agreement of three or more Moderators, the post will be edited appropriately and put back in place. In an extreme case, the post could be removed from the thread, but we would hope this would be a very rare exception. For either edited or removed posts, the reason for the action will be noted in the “Reason for editing” field, as well as the names of the Moderators who made the decision.

....... we have now edited Nancy's post.

This is no rash decision, the question has been debated back and forth, long and hard, but a vote was taken, and it was 8 to 1 that the lyrics of the song were "Religious" in nature.
We do not take editing member's posts lightly, this was a tough call, but that is the job of the moderators here, who are voted into office by the members.

Cecil Arnold, joe blankshain, Matt Dunlap, Robert Schaubhut, Steve Ash, Stuart Ablett, tod evans, Steve Clardy
 
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Steve, I don't think those two words you might be referring to would be objectionable in this post, as part of a song lyric. Here it is: ( I am not sure of the two words in question but I will highlight those that lean toward One specific religion, as I see it... Shaz )

EDIT This post has been edited as well, to remove the lyrics of the song that was deemed to be against the CoC.
Cecil Arnold, joe blankshain, Matt Dunlap, Robert Schaubhut, Steve Ash, Stuart Ablett, tod evans, Steve Clardy




Hi Nancy,
You have a right to your opinion and that is an important factor in the continuation and growth of a stimulated group. The exact emotion stirred by the circumstances of that day's events will never re-occur. Something just as catastrophic will occur but those feelings will be special to that specific occurance, just as each personal death in my family has had it own individual feeling. The bible and Jesus may or may not have a personal place in my life, but not necessarily in the life of all those who have lost loved ones in this unfortunate event. This being a woodworking forum, trying to maintain some balance between stimulation and consideration for all peoples can be a real juggling act. I will vote for your post to be edited, as per my understanding of the COC i.e. no religion. As always, thank you for your input.
Respectfully submitted,
Robert A. Schaubhut
Woodworking by Shaz
 
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Robert, I'll respectfully disagree with you... mentioning the name of Jesus or God is not religion. Religion is what man has designed. That being said, I understand the desire/need for "no politics or religion" in the CoC... but I hope that doesn't go overboard to the point where I can't say "God bless you" when you sneeze...:dunno:
 
Dear All,

This is a tough one. With moderator elections coming up, people deserve to know the positions of potential mods. Just so everyone knows, I would vote with Shaz on this one.

Thanks,

Bill
 
Good post Kevin, THANK YOU.

Here's my favorite song about that tragic day.......and I think a few have....

Darryl Worley, HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN


I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start preaching
Let me ask you this my friend

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it every day
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

CHORUS 1
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet they remember
Just what they're fighting for

CHORUS 2
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost
And those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry about Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?



Darryl Worley/Wynn Varble, 2003
 
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It just makes me sad we even have to worry about this.

I'm not offended by a stray comment about {insert the deity of your choice}.

I'd vote we just drop it, let it lie, don't remove, don't continue.....

Sentiments cross all woodworking boundaries, even those that stray into the vortex now and then....
 
Thank you Steve, and the collective moderation group, for restoring this thread. I am sorry this has caused undue grief, but I do appreciate the time the moderators (Stu and Steve) took to contact me personally and keep me informed of the proceedings. IMO, this forum is being run like a forum should be, and my hat's off to you for undertaking a sometimes thankless task.
 
Moving on...

I remember that day well. I was working for the railroad and I told my crew (I was a supervisor at the time)

"We're going to NYC"

10 days later we arrived and did not leave for 9 months. At the time I ran a very powerful vacuum cleaner that removed debris and mud from the track. It worked very well in the subway tunnels that were filled with choking cement dust that was pulverized as the towers came down.

As you can imagine we worked in the basement of those buildings basically and sucked up some of the debris, conveyed it into a dump car and hauled it back across the river. I think later it was transported over to the Fresh Kills Landfill where teams of people sorted through it.

It was not fun. It was not easy on the crew either. We went through quite a few guys, either through out and out quitting or transfers to other crews in different parts of the country. A few weeks ago I posted a rather hard to write thread about my wife leaving, my parents house burning and my sister being killed in a car accident, all around the same time in 2004. Helping out with the 9-11 incident had its toll as well even though it was a year or so later.

In some ways its great to say my career as a railroader helped this nation in its time of need. That is I had a machine, a crew and a career that could do some good. Mostly though it was a solemn 9 months of railroad work. There was 4 of us on that machine and we would work 12 hour shifts and hardly say anything to each other even though we were 40 feet underground in a rather small tunnel. Even now I don't talk about it.

Here is a picture of the working end of that Railvac as it was called. I have better pics of it, but nothing I can readily link to.

Outside_Cribs-close-214x142.jpg
 
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I believe that all of the mods know how I feel about this. I respectfully declined to edit my post, as the mods did set a precedence for MY post by allowing--without edit--this one: http://familywoodworking.org/forums/...highlight=pray.

I did communicate privately with Tod regarding this; however, it seems that my input was either ignored or had no effect.

I'm sorry this happened, I'm sorry if anyone was offended. However, as Mark said, mentioning the name of dieties is not religion. (How come his post wasn't edited too? And Shaz' post mentioned the two very words that everyone seemed to object to!).

I'm very disappointed and somewhat hurt over this entire incident.

Nancy (99 days)
 
I'm very disappointed and somewhat hurt over this entire incident.



Nancy, here is a cut and paste from my post:

"I'd post it except there are a couple of words that might be against the Coc so I'll abstain"

I was pretty sure I knew what was and what was NOT allowed when I posted that response, given our current CoC we all agreed to when we signed on this forum.

I also became "disapointed and somewhat hurt" when you took it upon yourself to go above my head and post the lyrics I spoke of. It isn't that I don't love that song and hold it in high regard as to the victims sacrifices, it's just that with the words that are "in" that song and according to our rules we all agreed to....it should not be posted.

I admire your "patriotism" and your spirit in which you intended it...but sometimes we need to step back and evaluate what we can and can not post per CoC.

Nancy, don't feel that I am taking you to the "whipping shed" None of us are mad at you for your enthusiasm and wanting anyone who never heard it to be able to, it's just that I am just trying to point out what is and is not acceptable at this point in time.

I'll Thank You in advance for (hopefully with this explanation) for your understanding of this matter.
 
Nancy, et al.

This is not an easy subject for any of us to moderate, however, we have a CoC that was ratified and accepted by the membership. It was a very healthy debate/exercise and we found that sometimes we do make mistakes (not on purpose or with malice). This forum continues to evolve and as it does every member has a say in how it grows and direction. We as Mods target no one individual/group/subject, but rather try to enforce the rules that the members have set in place. Interpretation is sometimes the cause of our pain and in some cases "clear and concise direction" makes our jobs easier. We respect all of the members opinions and will continue to strive to make this a place were Family Woodworking is freely and openly discussed.

And Nancy, your input was taken into consideration as part of our discussion.
 
I removed the Prayer from Roger's post.

Yes it was a direct violation of the CoC, but, I will remind you that it was back before we had ratified the CoC and voted on it, that beautiful Poem by Roger's daughter was posted before we had the rules 100% set up.

Got any more that we can go and edit? :huh:

Send the links our way, we will do our best, that is all we can do, and we are trying hard to do it.

I'll tell you that your quote of those song lyrics caused a real stir in the staff area, we ended up with a total of just over 18 pages of discussion and debate, which equals a whole lot of free time, for a whole lot of people volunteering here.

I'd ask everyone to PLEASE think about what you post, BEFORE you post it, if you are not sure it crosses a line, at the very least, PM a mod or two and ask their opinion.

I'm not complaining, I stood for this job, and I don't mind lending a hand to help out with running this place, at all, I'm just making an observation is all.

Sorry if I've stepped on any toes here, I'm just telling it like it is.

good day :wave:
 
I did communicate privately with Tod regarding this; however, it seems that my input was either ignored or had no effect.

)


nancy,
my appoligies for not contacting you via a p/m in response to your refusal to edit your post.
yesterday i spent close to 5hrs out of my day sitting in front of this durn computer cussin` and discussin` forum issues.
your response was relayed to ALL the moderators at 4:57am my time yesterday morning.
so unbeknownst to you your "input" was not ignored and the effect it had severely restricted several folks work days.
i feel quite confidant saying that all of the moderators have and are giving not just your post, but the issues it raised considerable thought....we all care about the forum and its members and are doing the best job that we`re capable of.
again please accept my appoligies if you feel short changed:eek:
 
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Moving on...

I remember that day well. I was working for the railroad and I told my crew (I was a supervisor at the time)

"We're going to NYC"

10 days later we arrived and did not leave for 9 months. At the time I ran a very powerful vacuum cleaner that removed debris and mud from the track. It worked very well in the subway tunnels that were filled with choking cement dust that was pulverized as the towers came down.

As you can imagine we worked in the basement of those buildings basically and sucked up some of the debris, conveyed it into a dump car and hauled it back across the river. I think later it was transported over to the Fresh Kills Landfill where teams of people sorted through it.

It was not fun. It was not easy on the crew either. We went through quite a few guys, either through out and out quitting or transfers to other crews in different parts of the country. A few weeks ago I posted a rather hard to write thread about my wife leaving, my parents house burning and my sister being killed in a car accident, all around the same time in 2004. Helping out with the 9-11 incident had its toll as well even though it was a year or so later.

In some ways its great to say my career as a railroader helped this nation in its time of need. That is I had a machine, a crew and a career that could do some good. Mostly though it was a solemn 9 months of railroad work. There was 4 of us on that machine and we would work 12 hour shifts and hardly say anything to each other even though we were 40 feet underground in a rather small tunnel. Even now I don't talk about it.

Here is a picture of the working end of that Railvac as it was called. I have better pics of it, but nothing I can readily link to.

Outside_Cribs-close-214x142.jpg

Travis

I thank you for the work and sacrifices you made in helping NY and the nation in the effort overcome some of aftermath of this day that we should all remember. As well as remember that it is to control our thoughts and actions that these who planned and carried out these acts hoped to accomplish.

Again Thanks
Garry
 
Travis, your story reminds me of a first cousin just a bit older than me. He was a Medic in Vietnam. He went in the service a fighter, his nick name was Butch because of all the fights he had. Very scrappy young man. He came back a different person. He avoided fights and conflicts as much as possible. He was also very quite and just a different personality.

The only stories I ever heard was about his unit loosing 75 or 80% of their men in battle. Never heard the details and I doubt he ever shared them. Only a few years ago when another Uncle died I learned at the funeral he has a Purple Heart. Again, have never heard him speak a word about what happened, other than say it was bad. I can only imagine as a medic the horrors he saw. No, I probably can not imagine!

In the past year of year and half, I am not sure why but he started going to a Support group for Veterans. I have not talked to him since them but everyone says the difference is amazing. They say now you can't talk to him with out hearing his Vietnam stories. He now will watch war movies when he wouldn't watch anything that involved any sort of violence. He is saying it was something he needed and should have done 30 years ago instead of keeping it all inside. I for one am looking forward to seeing him again.
 
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