Collecting on a debt

I think its time for some good old fashioned justice. We're a woodworking family here, and I am from New England. Now while we generally prefer the burning of undesirables at a stake thing, but that unfortunately ate up too much good hardwood that could be put to use in woodworking uses. The undesirables, or people accused of being undesirables, took issue with it for some reason as well, though I am not sure why Anyway I think its time for the tar and feathers and run-them-out-on-the-rails thing.

Here in Thorndike, we have railroad tracks, and we have plenty of tar and feathers and its been a few weeks since we gathered up the town and had a good old-fashioned New England Tar and Feather party. Anyone up for it to help ol Steve out?

(This entire post is just a joke by the way. We gave up the burning-at-a-stake thing since the undesirables formed a Union back in 1687, and its been well over a month since this town tarred and feathered anyone.)

Side Note:

Thorndike has the dubious distinction of having the last lynching in Maine. There was a horrific murder here back near the turn of the century. A whole family was killed by an axe except for the teenage boy. He was accused of killing his family and was lynched for it. Later a former handyman wrote the town an admitted he killed the family because he hated the father of the family. He spared the teenage boy because he liked him. The town had lynched the wrong person and that he was now safely living in new Brunswick.)

Thanks for all the advice fellas.

Yep Stu, in the future no one gets product without cash in hand.

On another related incident, my wife got a email from "another" debtor yesterday ($700.00) he wants to get me paid up.He has owed me for 2 years and has felt badly about it.

I wonder if he was reading this thread?

e-mails ain`t checks.....are you meeting him for breakfast?

tod evans said:

...are you meeting him for breakfast?

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Not likely.

We used to be neighbors before he moved away.

I am beginning to see a pattern with this thread....I have 4 people who owe me for stuff done in my shop, not my housebuilding business (that's another story) all 4 were considered friends at one time....I AIN'T MAKIN NO MORE FRIENDS....

friends-n-family works done for free all others pay cash!

Jeff Horton said:

I am picking up the small claims form, filling it out, and I am mailing a Certified Letter with a copy of the form to the jerk. Basically a pay me now or I file this on Monday.

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Steve Ash said:

The last email he sent to my wife, and she printed it off then brought it home, but basically he said in it to "go ahead and take me to court and get it one way or another...I just plain don't have it now"

I am thinking it is too bad HE don't have it, but it was done for his business and he is a partner, so the business and/or his partner may need to come up with it. I am sure he has not told his business partner he/they owe this debt.

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I like Jeff's idea. But perhaps make sure this is mailed to the partner as well.

But I have no idea what small claims or collections agencies really cost. Do keep an eye on your own time too. There comes a point when it is better to just drop it, walk away, and chalk it up to experience. Don't let yourself get enslaved to the situation.


Condolences, Steve. It sucks when you find yourself taken advantage of. But I think I'd rather live my life a bit more trusting (like you seem to) than as a cynical grump.

best,
...art

Steve Ash said:

Yes, I kept all emails and printed them out in case my (heaven forbid) computer crashed, I would have all the correspondence and his acknowledgement of debt owed.

The last email he sent to my wife, and she printed it off then brought it home, but basically he said in it to "go ahead and take me to court and get it one way or another...I just plain don't have it now"

I am thinking it is too bad HE don't have it, but it was done for his business and he is a partner, so the business and/or his partner may need to come up with it. I am sure he has not told his business partner he/they owe this debt.

I hate to pay anyone to collect on this debt since it is only $371.00 but if he has to pay for collections it would take the "sting" out of.

I have never had to do anything like this, so I don't know what are my costs or are his costs.

Seems a whole lot easier and less trouble if he'd just "man up"

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Steve, small claims courts are set up, by law, to be less rigid in court procedures than higher courts. You don't need to be a Perry Mason, just state the facts and present whatever documents you may have to support your claim.
The balance only needs to be tipped slightly one way or the other for the judge to determine whether the claim is valid or not. You do not need overwhelming evidence. The judges are not idiots, they know truth and lies when they see them.
Save receipts for certified mail. You cost of filing will vary with jurisdiction but should be in the $50.00 range. When the defendant loses, he pays everything.
This guy will never pay you otherwise. For a relatively small amount like this being unpaid means he has tons of other unpaid bills. What you need to do is make paying this a #1 priority otherwise he will continue ignoring this debt. Right now he is in denial. Psychologically, you must become the 'squeaky wheel' in his mind. Small claims court will do that.
All that said, when you win, that is only half the battle. Actually collecting is the rest. With a judgement you can do several things. Register it with a credit reporting agency. (that might even be automatic) If he still refuses to pay, you can get a court order and the Sheriff will go to his house and take whatever goods he deems necessary to sell at auction to pay off the debt. Telling folks I could send the sheriff to take their car, wedding rings, guns, TV, etc. was usually a pretty effective tool for collecting. Some didn't believe me until the Sheriff and U-Haul trucks pulled up at the door and started loading their belongings. It can be done.
In the olden days, a creditor actually 'owned' a bad debtor until the bill was paid. It was a form of legal slavery and was pretty effective.

Steve Ash said:

Not likely.

We used to be neighbors before he moved away.

I am beginning to see a pattern with this thread....I have 4 people who owe me for stuff done in my shop, not my housebuilding business (that's another story) all 4 were considered friends at one time....I AIN'T MAKIN NO MORE FRIENDS....

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ya nevr sent me a bill i culd siffer stev write it down and i will pay on monday

larry merlau said:

ya nevr sent me a bill i culd siffer stev write it down and i will pay on monday

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I had been waiting for Laryy to chime in..........

It was worth the wait!

Steve....that's a tough situation.

IF the guy was truly a friend, he'd have paid it by now. He thinks so little of the relationship that he's willing to take financial advantage of you.

I have a close circle of friends. When we were all raising kids, money was tighter than now as we are all empty nesters. We used to borrow yard tools back and forth. If one of us busted one....and it did happen.....we always went and bought a better one and returned the busted one with the newer, better quality one.....We valued that friendship.

I have a friend, who when my youngest son decided one year he wanted to elk hunt with me on a trial basis, loaned me his Winchester Model 70, 270 rifle. He bought this rifle at age 16 and values it immensely. He takes extremely good care of everything he owns. He openly admitted that he wouldn't lend it to his own brother but he loaned it to me. So my youngest son hunted with my 338-06 and I carried my friends 270.

If he replied to your wife in the manner you indicated, it's obvious that he doesn't care. File the claim and get your money while you stand a chance to get it.

Good luck! Tough situation....

Ken

Oh, how about putting a lien on his properties! You may not get your money right away, but when he goes to sell . . .

OK, maybe I'm just being mean now.

Good luck Steve.

Wes

Steve, that really stinks, and it sounds like the guy is figuratively giving you the finger. I had a similar problem last year, but it was an accidental overpayment on a construction job. I called the guy about it as soon as I noticed. He was literally less than a mile from the house as he was leaving, but he would not come back. He made repeated dates to meet me as a particular spot and he would give me a refund. Each time he was a no show. After two months, I had had enough.

So, at 7:00 AM, in the middle of an ice storm, when I knew he would not be out working, I went to his house. I got him out of bed, as was my intent, and he got to stand there in the ice in his underwear and a pair of boots while he talked to me. He was very sullen and told me I should have called and he would have made arrangements to meet me. (Yeah, right). I was all smiles (well, not really). I was actually quite stern looking. But he got the point, and I got my money. It was a check, and it happened to be drawn on the same bank as mine. He did not know that, but imagine the thoughts going through his head when later on that morning he walked into the bank to see me already there at the teller getting my money!

I don't know if this tactic would work for you or not. It sounds like this guy of yours might be a little hostile. If he wants to go to court, take him.

Steve, this is an sad situation for you. I agree with everyone that this is no longer a friend, would wonder if he ever was. Get your $$$.

PS: Note to self, always pay Bill G. in a timely manner. That would be one heck of a way to wake up

That's too bad, Steve. It's a shame that folks think they can get by with doing business that way today. Now for my take. Certified letter containing completed Small Claims form? Yep, but I'd name his business as the defendant and send it to the business. A business deal is a business deal even though he told you that he would pay from his pocket. The point is, that hasn't worked and you did this job for a business. Nasty? Yes, but that's just business and someone has to answer the mail.

Travis Johnson said:

Glenn, I am not trying to preach to you here, or talk down to you in anyway, but rather want to pass on something I learned a long time ago...

When doing something for someone at work, don't do anything for PAY. Instead barter services or out and out give the item to them if it has minimum money value. When pay gets involved at the workplace, things tend to spiral out of control. Just something I learned over the years.

But take it with a grain of salt. I like where I work and the people I work with, but I don't hang out with them either. They aren't my friends...just people I work with. Every week they have a few cold ones after work, but I just get in my truck and get home. It sounds cold but for me work is work and home is home. I try to keep the two as separate as I can.

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In this case I had an item I was going to sell to no one in particular. Someone said they wanted it and I handed it over without the cash changing hands. Many months later . . . .

Steve, whatever method you decide on, I would make sure that his Partner is made aware of, or included in this, because from his email, it looks to me like he may have a habit of doing things like this and he doesn't want his Partner to know, or his Partner already knows of his indescretions and this would just put him in further Hot Water with him. Of course, there's always the possibility that his Partner is a shyster too, and they play "Good Cop, Bad Cop", but either way it WAS for his business and both He AND his Business should be responsible for the Debt, as he is a legal representative of that Business.

Good Luck.

Note: I guess you and I should have done business together, since you did the work and didn't get paid, and I paid my contractor, (my bad), and he never completed the job. Unfortunately, in my case it was useless to go to court, because the amount was larger than small claims court would handle, and although I could have won a Judgement in the regular court, we determined that he didn't OWN ANYTHING that could have been confiscated to sell, to pay back my money, and I would have been out the attorney's fees, etc. on top of my original losses, which I really couldn't justifiably afford. He was a smart cookie, and got to five other customers in the same time period, before he had to leave town.

I only mention my experience to let you know that I vehemently hate crooks and thieves , (and unfortunately, this wasn't my only bad experience with thieves in the last few years), so go after him/them and the others from your contracting business, and don't let them get away with it.

Rennie Heuer said:

I had been waiting for Laryy to chime in..........

It was worth the wait!

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I knew sooner or later He'd have to have a few words.....thing with Larry is, the fewer the better since we can't read em anyway....

Ahm onlee kiddun Larylr, ahve grown akustomed to readin yur ritin.

Steve Ash said:

I knew sooner or later He'd have to have a few words.....thing with Larry is, the fewer the better since we can't read em anyway....

Ahm onlee kiddun Larylr, ahve grown akustomed to readin yur ritin.

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jist give the green light and i will take um out fer ya,,, got ole betsy sighted right in boss,, i would do the pare work thing and to the company you aint lookun to make friends just get yur money... he has dun had nuff time..

Steve, can you say Judge Judy!! File your small claims court today....you will probably have your money tomorrow. You have been patient enough. Gather up your proof, print out the emails owning up to the debt...you will get paid without having to give a portion to a bill collection agency.

Doug

Wes Bischel said:

Oh, how about putting a lien on his properties! You may not get your money right away, but when he goes to sell . . .

OK, maybe I'm just being mean now.

Good luck Steve.

Wes

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Unlikely a lien can be filed for a debt not related to the real estate. State laws do vary though. But unlikely as most of these laws all stem from English Common Law and are usually very similar.